Which is the good choice of DSLR w/ housing?

Hello everyone,

I am a beginer of SLR underwater photographic field.

Now I'd like to choose a suitable camera and housing,

I have used olympus 5050 and PT-015 for years.

However I can not resist the attractive clear photos of DSLR.

I like the color of olympus, but now the problem is the budget.

(Everytime budget is the problem^^)

Thus choosing a cheap and good quality DSLR and housing is my consideration.

Does anyone have suggestion or advise?

Or where I can find the comparrison of these DSLR.

Underwater equipment is the most important thing.

Thanks

Colin

Hi, welcome onboard.

First of all, the word 'cheap' can't be in the same sentence with u/w DSLR

If you looking for the less expensive options you should go with the entry points DSLRs: Nikon D70 / D70s or Canon 300D / 350D.

For the housing: its probably the Ikelite housings, there is less expensive option also: Fantasea but there is no much records for this housing.

Another option is to buy used equipment like the D100 that its fine camera but a little be old this days.

Just remember that this is just the beginning, you'll need lens, ports, strobes.....

Hello Collin:

In the buisness of underwater photography

Cheap (reffering to cost) and good quality- seldom if ever go together.

Housing an slr with good real optical lenses is relatively simple. Making them attractive and affordable to a demanding consumer market is another story.

The first thing you need to decide is the camera you wish to house. Nikon and Canon are the dominant names here and the uw housing manufacturers follow them closely.

Ikelite is the least expensive of the housing manufactureres (appart from the supermarket Zip bag). They produce a supperb product that under normal use should last you a long time. There are limitations with their system and this is where other manufacturers come in. Their clear polycarbonate cases are the less resistant to abuse when compared to Aluminum housings.

Aluminum housings are all the rage today. They are extrmely durable and their working depth rates are greater than Ikelite. They are of course as you might expect more costly.

Aluminum housing manufacturers include:

Aquatica

Seacam

Hugyphot

Nexus

and Subal

There are others but these are the main players.

All produce comparable quality products with professional grade materials and quality control.

Some look nicer that others. Some have limitations in one aspect or anothe but overall they are all good housings. The main difference is price and customer service in terms of their product.

Getting into underwater photography is not inexpensive. This is an investment, like buying a small car....a really small one at that. You need to carefully allocate your resources when making this investment.

Look carefully at all mufacturers and what you are getting for your dollar. The bottom line is - dont spend more than you have to in a system that you will most likely want to update in a few years, and get the most for that investment.

Having said this, Seacam gives you luxury for your dollar, Nexus gives you great style for your dollar, Subal a mix of the two but only Aquatica will give you a professional system that really makes your dollar go a long way. Aquatica is the best priced system out there. It is rated to 300 feet with the best dome port in the business. How good is their dome port? Well Ikelite uses it, light and motion created an adaptor for their users to use Aquatica dome ports (as they do not have one), etc. Bottom line. Whichever system you choose, make it go a long way as well as your bottom line.

If you would like to reach me off line please contact me direct. mauricio@handlerphoto.com

Good luck in your quest. We have all been there.

Mauricio Handler

I agree with Mauricio that the Aquatica dome ports are good. However, if you're going to say that they are the best in the business Mauricio, we'd like to see some facts/tests/samples to back that up please.

Otherwise, it's better to say "in my professional opinion," or "the best for your money" etc.

I've used other dome ports by Sea and Sea, Seacam, Ikelite, and they are all good. The optical glass domes certainly have the potential to be better than the Aquatica dome, but I don't have any tests to back that up.

Cheers

James

James:

You are absolutely right in your assessment of the dome port scene.

I will correct my statement by saying that there may be better dome ports out there but that for $395 there are no better ports than Aquatica. I mention price because the main forcus of Collins quest is cost and quality.

I stand corrected.

Sincerely,

Mauricio Handler

Mauricio is referring to the fact that Ikelite have added an 8" Aquatica dome port to their range.

There is no technical proof of the quality of Aquatica 8" ports, at least not that I am aware off.

It is safe say though, that the best in the industry use them, and for one reason only. They are very good ports.

Doubilet, Newbert, Tim Rock just to mention a few use them for stills. Howard Hall, Bob Cranston and Chuck Davis use them on Imax housings!. Gates, Amphibico, Light and motion and now Ikelite use or have adaptors to use them on some of their housigs as well. Who knows, even SeaCam users may one day want to adapt their housings as well.

All I was reffering to when I mentioned this to Collin is that they are great ports and to me the most important factor for consideration when looking for an uw housing system on a budget is that a)that the housing keep the water out! and b)that it have the best dome port possible.

Spend the rest of yoour money on the best glass (lenses) you can afford.

Mauricio Handler

I've handled a LOT of housings over the past few years. I can tell you that the most expensive system is the one that you switch FROM! If you get the uw photo bug, buy the best system you can the 1st time around. Maybe attend a workshop where you can handle lots of equipment. I've never owned a Subal, but I've shot with a few and found them to be impressively smooth and ergonomically very good. I think that they are a little more pricey than Nexus (also nice) or Aquatica, but the value shows in the product once you've held it. On Seacam - if you find them too pricey, just make sure you never hold one. You might mortgage the house! The nice thing with Seacam is that while the accessories are pricey, they are durable enough to last you a lifetime. Once you are invested in their viewfinder system and ports (unmatched IMHO), their housings are not much more expensive than any others. BTW - Expect a number of Seacam D1xs to be on the market in the coming weeks. For all practical purposes this might be a great way to enter the dSLR marketplace with an awesome machine. Backscatter sold a Seacam setup with S180 and macro setup for under $4k!!!

Mauricio, Re " Their [ikelite] clear polycarbonate cases are the less resistant to abuse when compared to Aluminum housings."

I have read of a number of instances where Ikelite housings have survived considerable abuse. e.g.

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/scus_coms.html

Thus my question, do you have details to support your statement?

Ikelite housings CAN survive a lot of abuse (my coolpix 990 and 5000 housings were TOUGH), but bump the port the wrong way and it will flood. That's not because it's an Ikelite - it's just the way the port mounts onto the housing. That's not the case with bayonet mount or screw mount ports. I know many who have had their Seacam or Aquatica housings dragged across rocks or even towed behind the boat by accident without flooding. I don't know if that would be the case w/ the Ike.

Cheers

James

There are more examples: http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/digi_reef.html

I smile and equate to being the Rodney Dangerfield of underwater housings. Then I go on record with the statement that ten thousand dollars will not buy a housing with more capabilities or less likely to leak. We joke about which style housing is more of a chick magnet. I am told the diver looks better coming and going with aluminum exotica, but the clear housing sparkles like a fine jewel underwater. Maybe I should say we don't want to make any money, we just like to sell housings as the reason we don't charge more money.

Bumping the port will NOT cause a leak James. Get real. I remember a SLR case that lasted for a week of crashing into San Diego rocks with no leakage. I will also respectfully point out who has eTTL and iTTL housings that work. You didn't mention that in your recommending............

Have to support Ike on the material and port connection. I've seen Ikelite housings dropped down flights of stairs and go diving the next minute. Smashed by boat hulls and trolled behind a moving boat when the photographer forgot to pull in his "drop line" (ME!) Smacked by a 2,000 lb. Great White shark after pushing it outside a cage for a closer shot (me again!) and every Ikelite product survived fine. All with no corrosion or painting preparation and the GIGANTIC advantage of being able to see your camera is safe

Many people who've never even HELD an Ikelite are concerned about the port locks. Only one I've ever seen flooded this way the guy didn't grease the port o-ring allowing it to slide into the groove and then forced it. Never heard a "click" indicating it was locked and voila' he flooded his Minolta film SLR. User error......

With all the engineers posting here I'd also like someone calculate the force exerted by water pressure on a port surface area o-ring even at only 2'-3'. Bet it would take a pretty good knock (if at all possible) to loosen it enough to cause a catastrophic flood. The only unsafe area for any port connection is in the rinse bucket which I contiually see people recommend HOURS of soaking their housing to new UW photogrpahers....A waste of time with an Ikelite..... Do a 60 second "shake and bake" pushing all the buttons and controls in clean fresh water before salt crystallizes and you've removed 99% of any salt. Been teaching and doing this for years with all my Ikelite housings. Allows more time for that post dive beer, too

Bottom line, inexpensive doesn't mean "cheap" or non-durable.

Back in your court amigos

David Haas

Ike is also amongst the most responsive of the housing mfrs. If you need something special they seem to go the distance to provide it. Now that they have introduced a modular large dome system their value is tough to beat. I'm still not impressed with their viewfinders on dSLRs, but Ike promises that a solution is in the works.

No amount of bickering from loyalists can replace holding the unit before you buy!

Remember the magnificent Seacam viewfinder sells for more than our entire housing. We are having a larger viewfinder designed.............

In answering Peters earlier questions about the durability of Ikelite housings and for me to back up my comments.....I can only offer my experience.

I am a big fan of Ikelite. my first housing was an Ikelite for my trusted Nikon F3 camera (at the time this was the D2X of our times). I had it for 5 years learing to create images and into making a living. I stopped using the Ikeite housing when a divemaster dropped it onto a dive platform on the handle side putting a 2 inch hole. I realized then that for the work I was doing and for the amount of wear and tear that it was going to go through, this housing would not do. I was also thinking as a professional, not a hobbiest or a photographer not earning a living through photography. Since then and at great expense I switched to Aluminum.

I continue to use Ikelite strobes exclusively and have been for 20 years (another story).

Their support for all repairs, floods, etc is unmatched by any other company out there period.

What I am trying to point out is that the thread has quickly lost its initial direccion...

We were asked to advise on

"choosing a cheap and good quality DSLR and housing "

Now we are telling our new member to buy seacam because its a deal at 4k!.

Buy what you can afford but do not go overboard as it is likely that you will want to change your system before long. In the days of film, having a housing for 5, 10,15 years was normal. Not anymore.

Save your pennies, buy the best slr and lenses you can afford and spend the rest, if you happen to have any change left, on diving.

Handlerphoto

At 30 feet, the pressure is ~ 15psi.

The diameter of the Ike port opening is ~3.5 inches so has a projected area of 3.14*3.5^2/4 let's call it 10 square inches.

So there is 150 lbs of force pushing in on the port at 30' of depth. But what about at 10 feet of depth? It's linear - so 50 lbs. At 0 feet of depth? There is NO force holding the port on. If you bump it it will come off, especially if you bump it 90 degrees off axis from the little port retainer clips.

When the port is bumped, it's usually bumped on the end, creating a bending moment. If the port is 6 inches long, you can do a simple statics equation to find out how much force it takes to lift the port off the seating surface. I'll do it tomorrow at work, I'm too tired now.

OK, done - the moment balance shows it would take 43 pounds force on the end of a 6 inch port to rotate it off - that's at 30' depth.

With a threaded or bayonet port, if you bump it, it takes a LOT of force to get it to break off because that's essentially what you are doing, you are not "popping" it off, you are bending metal. That's why I personally prefer this type of port mount.

I'm not knocking Ikelite housings, just pointing out what I see as a weakness. That's what I do - and so far I hope I haven't pissed anyone off - that wasn't my intention. I agree w/ Mauricio that this thread is getting off track. To go back to my original point - I agree, get the best one you can afford. If the Aquatica housing is a little more than the Ikelite, I think it's worth it, but that's just my opinion.

Cheers

James

So Colin, has that cleared things up for you?

I'm in much the same boat <no pun inten... well maybe alittle> as you and I'll share my own opinions for FWIW..

I'm looking to buy two set-ups, one for me and one for my wife. Cost becomes a bigger issue in my case and I can't buy anything yet as I'm finishing funding an MBA. I've been through the spectrum of choices, drooling over the D2x in the Subal housing, spending hours on the web sites of the manufacturers listed above and I've kind of come down to the following criteria.

How good a photographer am I? - answer is not at all. I've enjoyed my Sony P9 but am annoyed by the limitations of it..

What do I want to do with the prints? - In my case, I'd like to print out to 16" 20" and put nice pictures on the wall in my house.

How many megapixels do I really need to do that? Common concensus seems to be that 6 will do that job quite nicely. Goodbye reason why I absolutely must have a D2x :angry:So probably Canon 20D or D70. Further conversation on here seems to indicate the extra 2 megapixels probably won't make that much difference for my requirements in comparison to the £300 or so x2

What will affect this? Seemingly the optics of the port, but how much? seriously if its in focus its going to be a big bonus - there are definitely guys on here that will notice the difference, but will you? Will your friends? Spend the money on the lenses, this is where the difference will be made through better and faster focussing and of course quality.

What do I really need from a housing? It needs to be rugged enough for me to take on holiday, oh and look good . - There's plenty of people who do more than that with the Ike housing and it appears to do a fine job (incidentally, naming Ike and the polythene bags in the same sentence was a little harsh!!).

Am I going to make money from my photo's? - almost certainly not.

Finally, many people here have their setup in their signature. Find someone with the various setups and see how much difference you see in the photo's. If you see lots then you're going to notice with your setup - if you don't... (incidentally, stay away from the guys with a D2x! <_<

I can't remember who's site it was (helpfully) but someone here has great photo's with the Ike housing and D70. That was enough for me (well, today anyway)

Come back to the basics... What do you really need.. What's your budget and will your requirements have changed that much in 2-3 years.

Hope that helps in some way.

James

James math or formula is terrible for an Engineer. He may want to recalculate that example. Port "wobble" at the surface does not allow sufficient movement to leak. I suppose you could tear the port with its locks off the housing, but system has worked very well for over thirty years. Bottom line is the housing will withstand more abuse than the camera inside it should be subjected to............

Thanks for the reminder Ike - I did a proper calculation now that I am awake and edited the post. Unfortunately, the corrected numbers paint a worse picture than the wrong ones I posted last night... :-)

Cheers

James

There are more examples:  http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/digi_reef.html

Then I go on record with the statement that ten thousand dollars will not buy a housing with more capabilities or less likely to leak.  We joke about which style housing is more of a chick magnet.  I am told the diver looks better coming and going with aluminum exotica....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi all, I do agree that Ikelite is the only option if you are short on cash, but being a user of aluminum housings I also have to defend myself and say that my housing is not a 5 thousand dollars fashion statement.

First of all, let me say that I owned Ikelite housings for more than 8 years (first for the N90 and then for the F100). I had many problems with both housings, here are some of them:

1) The hot shoe connector was of very low quality, and the pins often didn't align correctly causing the camera to not fire the flash many times (and making me lose several pictures). This was *very* annoying. The first time I went to Bali with my F100 and Ikelite housing, I lost half of my shots (350 slides) because of this problem.

2) Yes, I agree that Ikelite housings do not corrode, but their bases and handles do, and the paint chips off pretty badly. I had to buy a new handle and base for my F100 housing after two years. I never had any corrosion problems with my F100 aluminum housing in 5 years.

3) If you travel you will see that size matters, and Ikelites are bigger and heavier than aluminum housings.

4) Sometimes the controls didn't align properly, and some wouldn't work on occasion, especially the turn nobs.

I hope that the new housings are better, but the problems above have never occurred with either one of my aluminum housings (Sea&Sea NX100 and Subal ND2), and I am very happy with them. They certainly don't make me take better pictures, but they make the entire process a lot easier and less frustrating.

Luiz