Topside Telephoto needed

Michael, not a lot of info out there on the 55-200 as it is brand new.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=14342265

My concern would be low light focus at the long end i.e. focusing at 5.6.

But the price is certainly attractive. You can get all of the following at B&H for less than the price of the 70-200.

Nikon D70s, 6.1 Megapixel, SLR, Digital Camera Kit with 18-70mm DX Zoom Nikkor Lens and 55-200 DX Zoom Nikkor Lens

My suggestion, if your wife doesn't read these posts, get a 70-200 for you and a 55-200 for her But to keep your secret you will not be able to show her the pics you are taking with your 70-200. And if she ever finds out what you did, you will end up with the 55-200.

Peter you are too funny!

Man, that is EXACTLY what i was going to do..

Order the 70-200 for me and pawn off the 55-200 to her, claiming it is sleeker newer model made just for the DSLR.. She will be so excited watching the whales if i dont tie the damn camera around her neck it will end up in the drink.

We are going with Mauricio Handler next April 1- 8 if anyone else is interested. He has Tom Conlin (sp?) lined up to help with the whale search...

M.

I'm not sure you will have the range you need with the 70-200. The 1.7 TC is good but it will slow down the AF, no matter what. The 80-400 may be slower but it gives you a greater range to shoot with. Esp if the whale pops up farther away. I did Silver Banks with Tom many years ago, but the talk is they may have to start abiding by IWC rules, which means 300m away. That 400mm sure helps then.If the whales are playing then you'll probably get close. Realize the type of bouncing you'll be getting is outside what VR can compensate for. Car driving over uneven tarmac is not the same as wave bumping. If you want something to cover almost everything, consider the Sigma 50-500. Sweet lens at the price level and AF is faster than the 80-400.

Hi scubadru -

Which one do you recommend for my Nikon...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...arch&Q=&ci=5558

Thanks for this additional recommendation.. Will IWC let is snorkel with the whales.. 300M is pretty far away!

M.

I do have the Sigma 50-500mm and it is pretty decent, considering the price and the reach. However, I am not sure if it would be appropriate for this particular scenario. I think the Nikon 80-400 or 70-200mm with teleconverter would be more suitable because of VR.

At 400-500mm, the Sigma pretty much needs to be used on tripod, or at least a monopod with very good technique. I think you have better chance to taking picture handheld with VR lens or Sigma equavalent, the OS lens. Sigma 80-400 OS is supposed to be pretty good as well and quite a bit cheaper than Nikon version.

Hi scubadru -

 

Which one do you recommend for my Nikon...

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...arch&Q=&ci=5558

 

Thanks for this additional recommendation..  Will IWC let is snorkel with the whales..  300M is pretty far away!

 

M.

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1. Lens:

It really depends on how much money you want to spend for this 1 trip vs getting a lense you'll use later. The 70-200VR is a very nice lens. And in a crunch, the 1.7TC is a cheap and easy way to get length.

Only 1 sigma lens has OS (their version of VR). Never used it so I can't compare it to the Nikon range.

Again in my experience of whale shooting with image stabilization, I've found it to be no help. If a boat is moving fast, the bumps can change your altitude by 2 ft even, doubt VR can compensate that, it could even screw it up by thinking you're moving too much and compensating (that's a theory of mine, unsubstantiated).

If the boat is slow moving, then the VR isn't going to help much unless you are shooting with slow shutter speeds, esp slower than your focal length(+ your 1.5 crop, you are shooting a D70 right?). If I were you, get the 100-300 sigma f4, decent price, tack sharp and fast enough for daytime sunlight shots. Under $800, save the money to upgrade to the D200 that's coming out soon.

2. IWC and whale encounters:

I doubt many whale watching companies' will follow the IWC rules if they can help it. Enforcement is tough. They have to prove you went to the whale,not vice versa and that's tough to prove (unless some guy has video or shots LOL). So i wouldn't worry too much. Tom loves his whales so i doubt he'd jeopardize their health. But the thing is the IWC fines do loom overhead, however small the chances of getting caught.

Michael, if you really want reach, take a look at the 200-400mm f/4G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor. All reports are that it's a great lens. Other than weight, the only downside I know of is the price i.e. $5000. In fact the price is so high that there don't seem to be many reviews of the lens e.g. Thom Hogan has it on his list of lenses but no review.

On a more serious note, lens quality becomes very important for higher MP cameras. So if a D2X or similar camera is in your plans for the future, getting good glass now will save you the hassle of selling bad glass down the road.

Hey Peter -

We currently have a d70 and d2x...im giving the d2x to my wife....)

I'm going to look at the Nikon 70-200 and the Sigma 100- 300.. The range of the Sigma looks appealing, price is good and is available. I dont see the new Nikon 55-200 advertised for sale at BH photo...

M.

Michael, if you really want reach, take a look at the 200-400mm f/4G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor. All reports  are that it's a great lens. Other than weight, the only downside I know of is the price i.e. $5000.  In fact the price is so high that there don't seem to be many reviews of the lens e.g. Thom Hogan has it on his list of lenses but no review.

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Having just used 200-400VR last month for quite a bit, I'd say your chances of hand holding it for 3 to 4 hours, unless you are very strong to be pretty slim. It's about 3kg+(7lbs+) if I remember correctly. That and the D2x would put it at 9lbs+(4kg). Not something you'd want to handhold for long periods. I'm moderately strong and shoot with 3kg range regularly but I was fatigued after 3 hrs straight of that monster combination. It's super sharp, great color and contrast and the memory AF is a nice touch.

Michael, since you have 2 cameras, I assume you want something different for each? Try checking out the reviews at fredmiranda.com for the lenses. You will also want to buy from a place which can return FOC. Sigmas have a bit of a reputation of QC issues, so you could get a dud lens. Then again I'm very happy with my 12-24 and 120-300 and both were fine the first time. If you do go with 70-200VR(which is highly recommended), get the TC as well. It may be useful to get a bit of extra length. Just realize with a TC, stopping down will get better results so it may negate any advantage of extra length on the cheap. Good luck.

I have been to Rurutu twice to shoot whales so hopefully my experience will help.

I would go with the 70-200 because the focus is fast (go for the VR if you don't mind spending the extra money).

Buy a neckstrap with a lot of padding

Have a towel handy to clean your optics...I was constantly getting spray from the boat (pain) and from the whales (cool but sort of nasty)

Mike

Re" Just realize with a TC, stopping down will get better results." I shoot most of my shots with a 1.7x at the max and see no problems.

Re" Have a towel handy to clean your optics." Oh my. splashing. I recommend a clear filter. They protect the main lens and are easier to reach to clean.

As everybody already has said, I'll add in my vote for the Nikon 70-200 VR and the 80-400 VR with the 70-200 VR being the "cream of the crop".

Late to the party a bit here, hello all from sunny Darwin! (Australia, not the Galapagos Island).

I have and have been using heavily the 70-200 and would agree with many that this is a superb lens, but I think Drew is right, you may well be wishing for more reach. I would not discount the 200-400, although it is a bit outside your price range, as long as you're willing to do some gym work . While the 70-200 and the 200-400 both feature the second iteration of Nikon's image stabilisation system, I would agree with Drew that the sort of motion you encounter in a zodiac is not going to be dealt with by this system, it takes about 1/3 of a second to stabilize in the 70-200, and a lot of motion can happen in that time.

If you use an 80-400 on the D2X you might get to a good place... the D2X has a big beefy high torque focus motor, so it can drive the screwdriver AF system in the 80-400 a lot faster than the relatively anemic little motor in the D70.

I don't think VR will help with the boat movement either but I would expect that to get enough reach, you will need the range of 300-400mm from 70-200 with teleconverter or 80-400mm. In a zodiac, it is going to be strictly handheld and I dont' think it would be possible without VR or something equavalent.

Trying to shoot handheld at 400mm without VR is not easy even under the best circumstance.

Reach can be good, but flexibility is best. The 200-400 is great for reach but if the whale breaches 30ft from the boat, all you get is a piece of the body. Happened to me more than a few times. That's why I like the 80-400 range. The great thing about the D2x is that you can go to HSC mode and gain 0.5x extension in a crunch. It's more difficult to use the AF points and it's 6.7mp vs the full resolution but you get the shot. And if you have the 70-200VR or 100-300f4, it's at f2.8 and f4.

The best way to shoot whale shots from a small boat is to shoot with high shutterspeed. Better yet for the D2X to get the mirror up so mirror slap isn't a factor, although I doubt it works with continous drive shooting. If you are having trouble with getting sharp shots with the D2X, try turning off predictive AF (function A4). The function assumes your subject will move and guesses which way, which can muck up the shot if you are shooting wide open.

For example,all shot handheld:

Shot at 400mm, f9 1/800. Not the sharpest, even with VR. Bad choice of shutterspeed and shot mode.

Here at 400mm, f8 1/1500. Much sharper. VR is off. Pumping up the ISO helps, but with the D2X anything more than ISO 800 will result in loss of detail with NR on or noise with NR off.

Peter

I didn't say there was a problem with a lens with a TC. I'm saying that stopping down gives better results in terms of sharpness. The 70-200 is sharp at 2.8 but sharper at 5.6. With a TC, it's now a f4, so stopping down to f8 would get the better result.

Hello Eveyrone -

Wow! Im impressed with all this great info everyone has been providing...truley amazing all the things to be considered. I wasn't even thinking of the weight and spray issues...

I will probably end up with the 70 - 200 with a TC.. and I may have an option on a loaner 80 400 ... Neck straps will be brought along on this trip!! I think we are using hard bottom boats so Im wondering if a monopod would be a good idea..

Im printing everyones comments so I have them for latter..

Scurbadru...thanks for the details and the attached images...very impressive...

Maybe with all this I can show Mauricio a thing or two...probably not...

M.

Craig, re "it takes VR about 1/3 of a second to stabilize in the 70-200" Yes, from the time you first press the shutter release. But with 1/2 press this is not a factor nor is it with continuous. Thus my recommendation, unless you are shooting the D70 faster than 1/1.5 f or the D2X faster than 1/2 f e.g. 1/680 at 200 mm with 1.7 x teleconvertor, then I would leave VR on.

scubadru, re A4, while I agree it's probably best to turn it off, even Thom Hogan is still struggling to define when it should be on and when it should be off. For more on focusing the D2X see the following thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=14322801

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=14363570

A lot will depend on the proximity of the whales per say, the attached shots where taken from a research boat in the bay of Fundy, they have permits up to their wazoo to get close to thoses guys, it might not be the case with your boat, try to find what is the distance that they are bound to respect, that will give you a clue, up here on the St Lawrence river its 500 meters, might as well use Hubble for these shots , if you can get close to them get the 70-200 F:2,8 VR, if not then go stronger or use a TC, most of my shots are inside 300mm of focal lenght, anymore and it almost create more problems than solutions, and just in case you didn't know, DON'T use a monopod and dont use your elbow for support on any part of the boat if the engine is running or iddling, it will drive that diesel engine vibration right trough your lens.

have a good trip

Snout at 105mm, schooner and whale at 200mm and tail at 150mm

I will probably end up with the 70 - 200 with a TC..  and I may have an option on a loaner 80 400 ... Neck straps will be brought along on this trip!!  I think we are using hard bottom boats so Im wondering if a monopod would be a good idea..

Scurbadru...thanks for the details and the attached images...very impressive...

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Michael, bring both, you won't regret it. I suggest the Optech strap which is made of neoprene. Dries fast and is easier on your neck or shoulder. You do not want a monopod unless you know exactly where the whale is going to breach... good luck with that one

Thus my recommendation, unless you are shooting the D70 faster than 1/1.5 f or the D2X faster than 1/2 f e.g. 1/680 at 200 mm with 1.7 x teleconvertor, then I would leave VR on.

scubadru, re A4, while I agree it's probably best to turn it off, even Thom Hogan is still struggling to define when it should be on and when it should be off. For more on focusing the D2X see the following thread.

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The thing with shooting whales (esp breaches) is that you don't know exactly where they will pop up. And the entire breach lasts for 1-1.5 secs to reach peak height. So you have to compose, focus and shoot like mad. So high shutter speed (I'd recommend 1/1500 or more to freeze the action) and faster AF focus is crucial. Even when shooting under 1/1000th, VR will delay the AF and possibly miss the shot. I'd rather get the shot than try to mash the shutter button but the VR delays it by 0.3 secs or whatever it does. I think VR will just screw up more than help (but that's my personal take). and that's why I don't like a TC which slows AF down by as much as 40%.

Viz'Art...IWC is 300m. They have 500m boundaries up there? Catching a spylook would be like... hey is that a turtle in the water? Nahh...it's a whale

Re "up here on the St Lawrence river its 500 meters."

That just breaks me up. Not that I think 500 meters is wrong, but rather, while some are limiting how close you can get to a whale without disturbing it, the Japanese and Norwegians are busy shooting them for research or whatever and eating them.