Subal ND2 w/ Hartenberger Strobes

Just had a weird problem with a Subal ND2 Housing, Nikon D2X Camera and Dual Hartenberger Stobes. A customer experienced a problem with this setup on a recent shoot. With both strobes wired to the housing with single sync cords, the strobes would not fire at power levels below -3 (they range from 0 to -5). Using a single strobe worked fine, as soon as any second strobe (regardless of brand), the Hartenberger strobe would not fire below the -3 power level. He was able to get through the assignment by using the second strobe in slave mode.

Our customer tried the same strobe setup with a housed Nikon D70 and they worked without problem.

In an attempt to avoid potential problems we had already removed all but the x-sync and ground connections from the hot shoe. Yet this problem persisted!

While considering options to correct the problem (diodes did not work) I remembered a post by Wetpixel member Paul Kay. I used his recommendation and added a PC connection to the Left Sync Bulkhead and isolated it from the Hot Shoe connection. The PC Socket and the Hot Shoe are isolated in the Nikon D2X camera. Our customer is off on his next two week assignment tomorrow, hopefully we have solved the problem.

I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has experienced problems with Hartenberger strobes when used with the D2X.

Hi Dave,

I am surprised that the problem persisted with only the X-Sync and ground connections connected. That has solved all the other problems with strobes and the D2X.

The initial problems I had resulted in the camera not writing properly to the card (before I cut the green wire). The camera takes a picture and fires the strobes - but nothing is recorded on the card - although the camera will display the previous picture being taken. This fault is intermittant and would not occur with a D70 connected to the D2X housing.

It is possible that you have the same thing going on (although with only two wires connected it seems unlikely). But the fact that the camera might be re-showing you previous pictures can make you think that you can't get the lower power settings to work? Make sure you check exactly how many images have been written to the card - as I found it easy to get confused when doing test shots. Just a suggestion?

Once I had cut the green wire from the hotshoe I have never had this problem again (in 14,000 UW shots with the D2X).

The alternative is that you have a problem with the flash. Although this wouldn't explain why it is working with the D70. But I currently have an intermittant fault with one of my Subtronics that sometimes fires on full power when set to 1/2 or 1/4 power, but works fine on all other power settings!

Basically I just wish cameras would do as I tell them - and not try and be too clever for their own good. It seems that is when all these hassles start!

Please let us know if you find out what the problem is.

Alex

Hi Alex,

I too was puzzled having this problem with only the sync and ground wires connected. FYI, I forgot to mention that this customer has two ND2 housings and D2X cameras, the problem happened with both housings and both cameras. The only common factor between them was the Hartenberger strobes. I added the isolated PC connection into one of his housings for now to see if this solves the problem. He's on a two week assignment now and will be in touch once he returns. I will of course post my final findings on this problem, but my feeling is there is a feedback sensitivity problem in the Hartenberger strobes.

Another FYI, there's no need to cut wires on the Subal housings to remove hot shoe connections. Simply remove the three cover screws on the top of the hot shoe and then the two circuit board screws inside the shoe. Lift out the circuit board, there will be brass springs soldered to this board. Then remove the Chrome Pins from the shoe for the connections you'd like to isolate. We normally leave only the Center X-Sync pin installed and supply the rest to the customer in a zip-lock bag in case they'd ever like to use those connections for an ITTL or ETTL setup.

Dave,

Do you think it has something to do with the trigger voltage and the camera trying to "protect" itself????

Cheers

James

Hi James,

Thanks for bringing that up! I checked that as well and the Hartenberger strobes had only an 8 Volt trigger voltage which is perfectly safe for Nikon DSLR's.

Just as an aside the Subal ND2 has changed a little bit since it was the ND2H! The new housing, as well as having a new name, have a different lens release lever (more similar to the one on the D70) and a smaller MSC switch.

I do like taking pictures and well as geeking over housings, honest.

Alex

(before I cut the green wire)...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to be sardonic and derailing this thread, but that phrase gave me a mental image of Alex and Giles crouched over a D2X in the back of a bobbing boat, Petzel lamps on their heads, saying:

"Is is the green wire"

"No, the red"

"No, GREEN, GREEN"

As the shot counter counts down B)

Sorry to be sardonic and derailing this thread, but that phrase gave me a mental image of Alex and Giles crouched over a D2X in the back of a bobbing boat, Petzel lamps on their heads, saying:

"Is is the green wire"

"No, the red"

"No, GREEN, GREEN"

As the shot counter counts down  B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely hilarious Craig, thanks for the laugh!

This is a mere guess, but if you have two strobes connected to the hotshoe, they are also connected to each other. I expect that the camera's electronics fire the flashes by closing the circuit on the hotshoe and my guess is that the first flash which switches off changes something (voltage perhaps) in this circuit between the two strobes and hotshoe and it is this change which is causing the problem. It may be that the Hartenberger is sensing this change (as opposed to a high voltage) and it is this which is causing it to switch off at short durations as a protection. At longer durations it may see the change as less of a problem. I cannot see how it can be the camera unless the camera is closing and then reopening the circuit before the Hartenberger has actually fired (at low power settings), due again to a fluctuating voltage or similar.

Personally, I always prefer to use a second flash with its slave operating it (I always shoot manual now) rather than twin up hard connections. I also try to use similar flashes rather than to intermix makes which has given me problems in the past.

And for what it is worth, I now use S6 sockets wired in manually and connected to the hotshoe, and a Nikonos socket connected to the PC socket of my camera. I carry leads enabling S6 to S6, S6 to Nik5, and Nik5 to Nik5. This gives me a ridiculous amount of redundacy which I consider well worth having!

Hi Paul,

I think that's more than a "mere guess", I had assumed a feeback problem between the two strobes but had not thought it through as clearly as you have. If your "educated guess" is correct then by wiring the left sync socket to the pc terminal and therefore isolating it from the right sync socket, the problem should be solved. I'll find out in a few weeks when he returns from the current assignment. My only remaining question is why did this happen only with the D2X's?

FYI, my original suggestion was to use the second strobe in slave mode to get him through his last shoot. This did not work as well as we had hoped. The Hartenberger strobes weren't very easy to trigger in slave mode and often required repositioning to angles that were not the best choice for the lighting he was after.

I've just sold the last of a few very useful slave triggers. These were essentially a Nikonos socket with a slave sensor on the back. The could be screwed onto the end of a Nikonos type cable and positioned nearer to the main flash to overcome poor triggering by the flashes' own slave. I've no idea who made them but they were very handy for situations such as this. I wonder if Inon make anything similar?