ChrisH

@Architeuthis: I don't now the performance of the Inon Z330, but with the Sea&Sea YS-D1/2 I almost never used them on full power (FF body), mostly on 1/2 power. I would assume that the Inons are not less powerful? For Wide Angle shots my standard aperture ist f13, ISO during day in the Red Sea at 200, early morning or later in the day 320 or 400, to give a nice blue water color. Shutter speed as needed for the blue, most of the time more on the slow side (1/50 and slower). With these settings I have never run out of strobe power, only using full power on the strobes for shooting sunburst in shallow water (reducing ISO and closing aperture even more, so more power on the strobe needed). With the Seacams 150D I most of the time shoot them at 1/4 power setting. A common problem is that people shoot wide angle from too far away. This will reduce strobe power a lot! The inverse square law shows up 😉 Also often people over estimate how far the strobes can reach, which is not a problem of power, but also just physics underwater. Power ist only too low if you are really close and the foreground is not bright (!) enough. If it shows reduced color, it is not a problem of power, but shot from too far away. @Interceptor121 A wide beam angle is for me a key element of a strobe, as this should provide the most even and pleasant light. I don't know about the claims of the manufacturer and how reliable or comparable they are, though. But there is a significant difference in the quality of light between different strobes that is noticeable from the first time you use them underwater (for shots of coral reefs or similar). It is also necessary to learn how to position each strobe, as the beam angle varies from strobe to strobe. Positioning the Retras the same way as my previous Sea&Sea YS-D1 led to a lot of backscatter immediately. The same happened at the first test of the Seacams, it produced a ton of backscatter and theyneeded to be pulled more back than the Retras.

Very interesting topic! In my experience it is very hard to compare strobes and it is almost impossible to compare them based on the technical data sheet. And it is kind of sad that strobes tend to be a bit overlooked, given that they provide a hefty portion of the image quality for underwater shooters! First, if you are only a macro shooter, the strobes don't make that much of a difference as for wide angle shooting. If you shoot a lot of wide angle, I would not compromise on the strobes. The quality of the light provided by them is really important! Regarding power, I don't think it is much of an issue, if you go for the strobes you mentioned. They all should provide enough power for wide angle shots. I personally haven't had a situation where I ran out of strobe power. Most of the time I need full power on the strobes only when shooting against the sun in shallow waters. The guide number provided by the manufactures most likely doesn't tell you anything as long as you don't exactly know how it is measured. Also, it is possible to achieve a high guide number with a strobe that has cooler color temperature and a hotspot in the center, giving you a very bright, but unpleasant light. However power can make a difference in recycle time: if the strobe has more power and you need to use it at only 1/4 power setting, it might recycle faster that a weaker strobe that needs 1/2 power setting for the same exposure, even if the recycle time of the weaker strobe is faster at full setting compared to the more powerful strobe at full power. In my experience, a circular flash tube gives the best quality of light. I have had Sea&Sea YS D1 and D2 some years ago and upgraded them to the first generation of Retra Pros. The difference was amazing and worth every penny (quality of light and built quality!). I never looked back! But then, my buddies all used the Seacam 150Ds. And Seacam gave them to me for testing for a contest in Jordan. And as they are very expensive, big and heavy, I really really didn't want to like them! But yeah... didn't go all that well and I ended up buying them. The difference to the Retras was not that big as the jump from the Sea&Sea to the Retras. But I found the quality of light from the Seacam strobes better for wide angle. It is hard to describe, but they have a more "3D" look, the light and the colors are superb just right out of the cam. Everybody else I know that has tested them, does want them too 😉 that said, I would not recommend the smaller Seacam 60D version. I found the handling kind of annoying (no separate dial for mode and power!) and I don't think they can be compared to the bigger brothers (Seaflash 150D and 160D). For me, the "big" Seacams are worth the money. The size wasn't a big deal for me. Full frame Underwater setups are very big and heavy anyway. Underwater I think they are almost neutral. If you have the chance, try them out! However, if you don't want to pay the premium price tag (also the weight and bulk) for the last 10% in light quality, I think the Retra are the best all around strobe with the best balance of power/light quality/build quality/weight/size/price at the moment. I haven't tested the Marelux oder Backscatter though. To be fair, I personally would not buy a first generation of strobe from a new manufacturer or at least wait until the strobe has been sold a year or two, to check for reliability issues. But that might just be me.

Thank you! Controlling the water line is much easier with the big dome port. It gets more a "numbers game" with small dome ports where you have to shoot a lot of frames to get the shots you are looking for.

That is exactly to the point what I was trying to say! Why buy and bring a lot of different tools, if you can have one that does almost everything? For special use-cases there is always a way to spend extra money 😉 (CFWA -> Mini-Domeport, etc)

Yes, it is really strange. The HDPro version also worked flawlessly with the D850 and the 8-15mm Fisheye. I have no idea why it doesn't work on the Z8 or Z9 (testet it on both cameras). It is also very strange that the older version 300 DGX does work with Z8/Z9. 🤷‍♂️

Key for Split-Shots is finding an interesting subject above and (!) below the surface. You can only get both sharp by increasing depth of field as much as possible. Focus point needs to be set on the underwater part and the part above water needs to get sharp with depth of field. That is where the wet lenses might struggle and a fisheye makes things easier, as the depth of field should be much greater. But even with fisheye lenses it is most of the time necessary to close the aperture as much as possible (f18 and smaller on full frame sensor). A big dome helps a lot. If used only for split shots, I think a large acrylic dome could work, but I would not use it as a main dome port underwater because of their buoyancy and the constant need to "fight" it underwater. A big glass dome port is in my opinion the most versatile solution: it can handle fisheye, rectilinear lenses, split shots and the 8-15mm fisheye can be made more versatile with a 1.4 TC. A big dome is not easy to travel with, but it is all I need for almost all use-cases and thus the only big item I need to bring. Add one macro-port and two or three extension rings and you are set for almost everything. The picture below was shot with a Fisheye lens and a small 6" Dome port. The small dome port made it much more difficult, but it can work.

No, actually not. I don‘t remember the strobe setting, but the picture was taken at f14, ISO80, so the strobe still needs some power. You just adjust the exposure to the amount of light you want from the blue light. After that is set, you can dial in the required strobe power. You can go very low on shutter speed to let more light from the focus light in. The strobe will freeze the subject anyway. As I had set the shutter speed to 1/60 for this picture (so not really low), I think it was a very cloudy day with rather low visibility. This helps blocking the natural light so it doesnt overpower the artificial blue light.

Thank you! 😊

Thank you! 😊 The hairy frogfish was shot with a blue colored focus light (WeeFine 2300) for the background and a snooted strobe (Retra Snoot on Seacam flash) on the frogfish.

Yes of course, I cant exclude that. I also only used the Nikon AF-S 16-35 F4, which had the reputation of beeing the least worst option for Nikon rectilinear underwater. I didn‘t test any of the new alternatives for Z-Mount. But again, even with better optics, the result would be the same: for the same shot, i would have needed to back off a good amount compared to the fisheye! And the overall image quality would thus suffer compared to the fisheye. Also my fisheye shots don‘t look anything like the test shots you did. The quality in the corner of the frame is vastly better.

I personally could not recall a situation where I would not need to get very close to the subject underwater. And being able to do that is key. Thus the almost exclusively use of the fisheye lens for wide-angle pictures underwater. For video this is a different story of course. But I can count the (good) pictures I did with rectilinear lenses almost on two or three hands and often people won't even bring other lenses than fisheye for wide angle trips. The only use cases for rectilinear lenses underwater would be in my opinion pool shots of models, inside caves (that don't suite the fisheye distortion) and sometimes wrecks. I personally don't mind using a fisheye for wrecks, but some people don't like the look (although often you can easy get shots that most people would not relate to a fisheye, because the fisheye distortion is not really pronounced). I would not ever use a rectilinear lens on a reef scene or something like that. If you need to shoot sharks that don't come very close you can use a rectilinear lens, but the quality will be poor just because you shoot through a lot of water. I don't see poor corner performance in my fisheye shots, at least the shots would be much worse with rectilinear lenses. Of course that might be because I am not pixel peeping and mostly look at the overall impact of an image, so more scientific tests might be different. But then again, if it can't translate to "the field", the result of the scientific test might be of no use. That is of course only for me.

It might be a little Off topic, as it is not directly about the corner performance, but the fisheye lens is mostly used because of its wide angle of view and ability to focus very close. So you can get very close to your subject and shoot through the least amount of water possible. That is where image quality underwater can be gained the most: shooting through as little water as possible. With the normal (rectilinear) wide angle lens you need to shoot from a much more distance to get the same subject in the frame. if you shoot all lenses from the same distance, it will not show the real benefit of the fisheye lens. In reality you would have to back off a lot with the rectilinear lens to get the same subject in the frame as with the fisheye, giving away image quality due to shooting through more water. I just wanted to state this, as the initial post could lead to the impression that fisheye lenses provide poor image quality underwater, which is not correct in my opinion.

Color temperature of a strobe is an interesting topic. Basically, a warmer color temperature of the strobe light will give you a nicer color of the blue water in wide-angle shots. The automatic white balance tries to contain an average of I think 18-19% grey. If you hit the foreground with a warmer light color from the strobe, the white balance in camera "counters" this with getting the whole image a cooler color, giving a better blue right out of the cam. The effect does mostly show if a good portion of the image is lit with the strobe (affecting the white balance of the whole image), so you can see it more in reef scenes or something like that. I think it can be achieved in postproduction, but it can sometimes be difficult. I found the colors look best if you get it right in camera, without having to change the hue and saturation of the blue in the RAW converter. But that is only my experience. A warm color temperature is one element of a good quality of light on a strobe (but not the only one). And if you ever have used a strobe with a really good quality of light (Seacam, Retra) you will instantly see the difference to other strobes... it really can transform wide-angle pictures! And you might never want to go back 😉 The quality of light is the key feature of a strobe in my opinion and I am often astonished how people will discuss recycle time and guide numbers, just to eventually end up with unpleasant light (been there, done that 😉 ). If you have different diffusors, I would for wideangle always go for the warmer color temperature. For freshwater, this can be different, as you want to get a pleasant green water color and not blue. But I don't dive in fresh water and have therefore no experience in what color temperature ist best for freshwater. In this particular image in the first post the effect of a warmer strobe or diffusor might not have altered the background color too much, as only a small portion of the picture is lit with flash.

Thank you all very much for your kind feedback! 😊

The salt does not scratch the glas. But it will cause glass corrision. The glass corrosion can not be polished (at least to my knowledge). So it is not advised to let a wet neoprene cover dry on the glass dome! It is however only a problem if it dries! As long as the neoprene cover and dome stays wet, it is safe afaik. Seacam advice is the same: „Entfernen Sie unbedingt die Neoprenschutzhaube nach jedem Tauchgang und Wässerung Ihres Gehäuses und montieren Sie diese erst wieder, wenn Glas und Neopren trocken sind. Trocknet der Neoprenschutz am Glas kann es zu teurer Glaskorrosion kommen, die nur vom Hersteller fachgerecht repariert werden kann.“ https://www.seacam.com/de/faqs/

Thank you! Those shots were taken on front curtain sync and a slight move of the camera during exposure.

For the Nikon Z8 I can confirm that the Kenko N-AF 1.4x Teleplus pro 300 DGX works without any problem, using the FTZ and the 8-15mm Fisheye. The newer version with "HD" did not work with the Z8! No AF and no aperture control. Interestingly it works fine, if you attach it while the camera is "on", but as soon as the camera is in "sleep mode", it stops working. If you attach it while the camera is switched "off", it will also not work after turning the camera "on". I tested it for the last firmware before going to Version 2.0. But I don't think firmware updates will change anything about the compatibility of the TCs.

Correct, the neoprene dome cover can damage the glass! If you take the cover with you on a dive, it is soaked with salt water. Attaching it to the dome port, the salt water will dry on the glass and can cause damage to it. What you can do is using two port covers: one for protection during handling the camera for diving and another one that stays dry and is only used after the dive. Otherwise you can keep the neoprene cover and the dome wet if there is no chance to rinse it properly (maybe between two tank dives), because the salt water will only damage the glass if it dries on it. As long as it is wet, it is not a problem. So yes, don't leave your neoprene cover on the dome after the dive, if it dries ist can cause damage!

Thank you very much! @Miles Below: It was my first trip to Sulawesi, but I liked the diversity of Bangka very much and will go there again! We did only one dive at Sahaun due to bad conditions with a heavy swell even at 15 - 18 meters (nightmare for photographers!), but it is an incredible dive site for sure! Very healthy corals! @Buddha: Those picture were shot at a shutter speed of 1/8 and a little movement of the camera.

Thank you Tim, happy you like them!

I just wanted to share some pictures of my recent and first ever trip to Bangka and Lembeh! Equipment used was: Nikon Z8 + Nikon Z 105mm Macro Seacam Housing and Strobes plus Retra Snoot

Thank you very much Tim! In fact it was not a dive light but a very powerful Keldan video light on a small tripod. The key was to time the shot so the available light would not overpower the video light. The red color was simply achieved with white balance. No Photoshop😉

I have only used a D850 for about three weeks of diving (it was not my own camera) and now had the Z8 for a trip to the Red Sea. First, there won't be a noticeable difference in the basic image quality. However, the new Z lenses perform very good and better than their F-mount counterparts. The biggest practical difference in using the two cameras will be the EVF. For me the decision would be based on the use case: If you shoot mainly macro subjects, the EVF is a big advantage, as might the AF. Also you can use the new Z105mm macro lens. However, if you shoot mainly wide-angle, there a some pro and cons to both cameras. There is no Z-mount Fisheye, so you will be using the same lens as on the D850. Also you can check exposure and strobe positioning directly in the EVF as you review your shot. Shooting fast moving subjects without strobes (dolphins, sea lions) at the surface might benefit from the higher frame rate and blackout free shooting of the Z8. But there is also a downside to the EVF: in high contrast scenes I much preferred the optical viewfinder of the D850. Also battery life is good on the Z8 but nowhere near the D850, so you will end up changing batteries (and open the housing) more often.

Yes!

I really like the fact that Nikon keeps updating their cameras in such a way for free! The new firmware introduces the bird detection AF, as well as a new shift mode (up to 180MP) and Auto-Capture features as well as some new options/customization features. Nikon also claims to have improved AF-Performance. And very important for underwater photographers: we get new shutter sound options 😆