Jerry Diver

I see your point. Reliability, battery life, power, and sync speed are all very important. However, light quality, like even light spread and consistent color, can still make a real difference, especially for those who need those finer details to be just right. Filters help a fair bit, but they can’t absolutely compensate for uneven or inconsistent base light. Many photographers who have switched strobes find that better light quality means spending less time on adjustments in Lightroom or during the shoot itself. All this talk of ‘quality of light’ may seem subjective, but it often reflects subtle yet meaningful differences that improve workflow and results.

You may find some examples by scrolling through this thread, although it’s not as straightforward as a simple ‘sponge ad’ comparison. Photography is a subtle art, and several photographers here have switched from one strobe to another. They reported that achieving a good shot was easier with strobes that offered higher light quality, mainly due to a more even light spread and consistent color temperature.

I believe this is because, over the past decade, there has been a significant shift towards using LED triggers with fibre optic cables, with very few photographers still using electric cables. As a result, the sample size of people using electric cables is now too small to accurately assess their reliability.

It seems like some folks bought a 2nd Gen Retra strobe back in 2018 at a bargain price and had to wait over a year to get it cause of a pre-order campaign that got delayed several times. Now, they're resentful that six years later, with all the global crises in between, the new 4th Gen models cost too much. Then there are folks who never bought a Retra Flash, and they're comparing strobes just based on price. It's clear that price is a big deal for them. Naturally, they're upset they can't get a high-quality product cheap and argue that all the unique features of Retra strobes are pointless and don't justify the price. Finally, you have the few folks who actually own and use the latest generation Retra Flash (having tried different brands before), and most of them seem mighty pleased with their strobes. Well, ain't that something!

Just look at HSS: the Backscatter HF strobe claims to have it but offers only one power level in HSS mode, while Retra offers 13. Beyond this: Only Retra offers leakage detection inside their strobe (saved countless of users from having a dead strobe). Only Retra provides simple firmware upgrades via phone and diagnostics in case of issues. Only Retra offers a wide variety of light-modifying accessories, not just different versions of the same diffusers. Only Retra provides a 2.5-year worldwide warranty on their strobes and highly responsive customer support. I could go on about the user interface, design, light quality, and more. The differences are clear and significant, especially once you delve into the details. However, if you are on a budget, these might not be as critical for you. From what I’m reading, the discussion is still focused on price differences and making pointless comparisons. Someone compared Ikelite and Retra earlier, but these two brands couldn’t be more different. Ikelite makes strobes that fit well with their equipment and don't even offer native fiber optic ports for starters. In any case, if price is your main concern, there are plenty of affordable options available. Choose what fits your budget.

Complaints about prices and comparisons of strobes based solely on their pricing are really pointless. The 6-year-old 2018 strobe is nowhere near the quality and performance of today's versions, hence the higher price for the latest models. Additionally, we've experienced significant global inflation over the last four years. Strobes that previously cost $500-600 are now in the $900 range. This trend is evident across other products as well; for example, trigger boards that used to cost $250 now sell for $650. The UW photo market is so small that producing large quantities is not feasible. This ongoing issue in our hobby leads to two problems: higher prices and lower quality. The limited user base prevents achieving the critical mass needed for true industrialization. Consequently, these products are often hand-built, making them more prone to human errors during assembly and development. In recent years, we've seen a significant influx of Chinese strobes from brands like Supe, Marelux, and Backscatter. These are great options for those on a budget. However, a detailed comparison reveals clear differences in quality and features between these and established brands like Seacam, Ikelite, and Retra.

In the previous post, you mentioned that the Seacam 160D is 300g heavier than the Retra with a battery pack. I replied that two of those strobes would be 600g heavier, which is a significant amount of weight and added bulk. For those 600g I could take a MF2+snoot and have a great package for wide angle and snooting. The Seacam's have a constant diameter, while the Retra's can be disassembled into substantially smaller units by removing the very slim but long battery pack. Additionally, the Seacam costs $2500, and their battery pack, which is no more powerful than 8xAA batteries, costs $385. USB-C chargers/cables are lightweight and versatile, they charge most laptops and phones, making them perfect for travel. They barely add any bulk, which is crucial when you need to travel light because of airline restrictions. Also if one of your proprietary chargers starts acting up it's much more difficult to replace, especially on a trip.

Yeah, I do mind a lot that two strobes will be 600g heavier than the Retra's with power packs, have less than half the autonomy of the Retra's, and also require a proprietary (heavy) charger to bring along. However, an extension that's only on a small part of the strobe body and not the whole circumference is no bother at all—quite the opposite, actually.

Retra strobe with the battery pack is the same length as a Backscatter miniflash, see below screenshot from their video of the new battery pack where the guy compares it in length. With the battery pack are nowhere near the weight(!) or bulk of larger strobes from Ikelite, Seacam, etc. The protruding battery pack is a very nice handle to position the strobe and a welcome addition in length IMHO. I didn't like that hey shortened the length with the new Booster.

I've gotten at least three emails from Retra for each of their product launches. Show me another underwater strobe where I can choose either 4xAA, 8xAA or a proprietary battery pack... I feel like we should start a whole different topic where we just complain about high prices for just about anything in underwater photography. I have some ideas for starters. Fiber optic cables that probably cost $10 in material, now available at $95: null And what about those trigger boards that cost $20 in electronics, yours for just $695: null

Both batteries need to be replaced so it's $50 and the lifespan in underwater strobe usage is already much less, probably around 150-200 cycles until we reach 60-70% battery health, because underwater strobe battery usage is the exact opposite of ideal battery usage with sharp spikes in battery drain for fast recycle time. Therefore an additional 40% decrease in battery life is a substantial problem and as a result a well tuned battery pack will eventually cost less. The best I can explain is by comparing it to an engine with 2 or more cylinders (battery cells). If one cylinder works perfectly until 4.000 rpm and the others are good to 6.000 rpm we should limit the rpm to 4.000 rpm. However we can't know this unless we measure all cylinders for wear (internal resistance). If we are constantly running the engine at 5.000 rpm the weaker cylinder will get used more and the stronger cylinders too because they will need to work harder to push the weaker cylinder which is producing much more friction and heat. Eventually all cylinders will add friction and simply stop working, turning over, which is the best case. The worst case is the engine has a failure at high rpm (reverse polarity within the battery). Internal protection circuits help reduce this to an extent but if there is a high enough difference the stronger batteries will damage the protection circuit of the weaker battery and itself. Again, the reputable topside strobe brands never combine two or more loose Li-Ion cells (especially not the powerful 21700) and imagine the pressure they have in a much larger market, the ones who would do it would immediately gain an advantage over their competitors. So why don't they do it? Answer is: it presents too big of a risk for them to open their battery compartment to accept large loose Li-Ion batteries and even if the manual says you can only use such and such batteries you have invited users to insert anything they want and the product can't effectively prevent the damage. Yikes, I guess the 30-40% failure rate of the backscatter miniflash was even higher.

It's about measuring how each individual battery performs and then combining them. Constantly using the same pair of batteries together could actually be worse.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378775313019447

Backscatter is primarily a sales operation, not a strobe manufacturer. Their products are made in Chinese factories and imported to the USA at low costs. They rarely repair products because it’s cheaper to replace them—a Miniflash costs them around $100, and the new HF strobe about $200 directly from the manufacturer. Their Miniflash had a high failure rate (30-40%), but they kept customers semi-satisfied by sending out new units, which only makes sense given the low purchase prices. This approach appeals to consumers who focus solely on price and specs, ignoring the bigger picture. In contrast, companies like Ikelite and Retra manufacture their products in-house, in the USA and Europe, where labor and environmental laws actually apply. One is a powerhouse in longevity, and the other is a true innovator. To my knowledge, Retra is still the only company with a leakage detector in the battery compartment and firmware updates via mobile phone. Personally, I don't need these features, but for some, they are an absolute must-have. There are many strobe options now, so you can choose according to your budget and needs. However, be aware that shiny low prices usually result from cutting corners in areas that might not be obvious when looking at a spec sheet.

Thank you, I have corrected my text.