vkalia

It isnt a question of being prevented from doing something now, as much as being able to do more. As the general benchmark of what cameras can accomplish increases (noise, shadow detail, dynamic range), the threshold of quality keeps increasing. My 6MP Canon DSLR took great images for its time 20 years ago - but my 1D4, R7 and Fuji XT5 do a lot better. To be more specific, the one thing that matters to me is if the gap in MP count becomes too large. While i have never been one to chase megapixel count, the gap does become significant at some point. More megapixels (provided they are of a comparable quality) does provide a greater ability to crop and re-frame, and still have the ability to make decent sized prints. I mostly shoot with a fisheye lens, and while it works well enough for me that i am not really tempted to change (except for very specific instances), there are times when greater resolution would help me crop and still get a decently large file in terms of PPI - eg, the attached photo of blue ringed octo taken with said fish eye. Besides, my initial post wasn’t so much that there is a specific, fatal flaw in MFT right now but a general concern that they were falling behind and would continue to do so. Chris’s counter-argument to that - that sensor tech has plateaued - is valid. Certainly, the improvement between successive generations of cameras is getting lower and lower. So maybe i am just worrying too much about what may happen.

Re development - you are correct that sensor R&D isnt necessarily done by the brand. But the volume sales do play a role in the amount of R&D done (if only by affecting the amortized sensor prices). Hopefully, Sony will keep applying its sensor tech to the MFT sensor as well. And thanks for that link to the sensor tech - I will go check it out. Based on my own experience with shooting with modern DSLRs versus older ones (I dont have upgraditis and only change my body every 5-6 years), i have been noticing an improvement and have ascribed it to the sensor output itself. Based on your info, it seems some of this is more due to be better processing than raw sensor imagery - so learned something new. Good to know, though - and happy to hear the MFT does have hope!

That’s definitely the downside - but ceiling where that becomes an issue has been constantly going up. Across all sensor sizes, pixels are becoming smaller (thereby allowing more pixels on the sensor). and yet gaining DR and better noise capabilities. Eg, my 40MP Fuji XT5’s APS-C sensor is orders of magnitude better than my older APS-C Canon bodies from 10 years ago. However, it seems FF and APS-C have been improving more on that front than MFT. My concern is that in another 4-5 years, we will still be living with 20-24MP sensors while Canon, Sony, et al will be offering 50MP with better noise and DR, with bodies that are only marginally larger than the Olympus. And to be clear - i really hope i am wrong and that OM gets their act together. For underwater especially, I do love the small form factor of my MFT system for ease of travel. But sensor R&D is $$$ and I have my doubts whether they will be able to do so.

Doh, i thought i had posted this earlier, but my post hasn’t gone through. By “larger”, i dont mean a physically larger sensor. I meant cramming more megapixels onto the sensor - sloppy phrasing on my part, sorry. Yes, i know “moar megapickles” isnt everything but as sensor tech improves, you can get more pixel density without giving too much in dynamic range and noise - and getting up to 24-30MP would just allow that little bit more freedom to crop and still get a decent-sized print.

This thread has come at a good time, as i am planning Socorros in July next year myself. I was actually thinking of adding a wide angle adapter to my 30mm macro lens in an Oly rig (so 60mm FF equivalent). Toying between the MWL-1 and one of the screw-in adapters from Kenko/Weefine (was initially thinking of the less expensive option but given the hassle of screwing it in/out all the time, the Nauticam is increasing in appeal). As someone who almost always shoots fisheye when going wide angle, i am a bit concerned about the 130 FOV of the WWL1 - the 150FOV of the 30mm + WA lens seems a lot more useful for big stuff (I’d rather get a few really special shots of something up close than a bunch of record shots from far away). Any thoughts?

Personally, i am doubtful about how long MFT will stay competitive. I have used a mix of Canon FF and APS-C for land-based shooting for over 2 decades, and for my needs, there hasnt really been a significant paucity of lenses. MFT did indeed have a huge advantage in size back in the day - while it still exists, that advantage is a lot lower now. Dont get me wrong - i use MFT underwater because of the compact size/ease of travel as well. Back when i switched in 2018, it was a no-brainer but if i had to make the same decision today, I’d definitely be considering APS-C mirrorless as an alternative. As for down the road? I don’t know how long OM Digital Solutions can continue to compete with Sony/Nikon/Canon in sensor technology. Being compact only takes you so far. IMO, YMMV, etc.

That’s be a great way to mess with someone. 🙂 Kinda like cracking someone’s eTAP wireless shifting (for all you cyclists out there)….

I wonder how much larger they can make the MFT sensor before IQ plateaus - because as it stands, i see this sensor size slowly dying. APS-C isnt that much bigger anymore, especially with mirrorless - so what does MFT bring to the table?

Hmm, that’s certainly one more thing to think about. I’ve been lucky enough to not get my port dinged so far, so its probably a risk i am willing to take for now, though. The weight penalty of glass ports is so massive, however - going from my 10” Aquatica superdome to the 4.33” Nauticam dome was an absolute blessing and the single biggest thing that made me switch to MFT. 🙂

Ah, i didnt think of it that way. Hmm, that does change things. Let me look into this is more detail. Thanks again!

Fantastic - thank you very much for that.

Thank for the suggestions, folks. Some comments/answers: 1). FF - I agree with @Chris Ross. I have been shooting wildlife, nature, etc for 20+ year with everything from an 1D2 (all 8MP of it) to an 5D4 to crop-sensor X/XX-D bodies, and i dont really see “full frame” as any kind of holy grail or APS-C as something one has “settle for” as a lesser alternative. I get that people feel differently and that’s fine - APS-C is more than good enough IQ for real world use (prints, online) and the appropriate FOV, i prefer to get the smallest/easiest-to-travel kit i can get away with. Let me put it another way - no one ever looked at a well-composed, properly-processed image and went “oh, this is nice but it would have been even better if shot on FF” and back when i used to sell my images, no one cared what Underwater, I actually switched from a Canon DSLR to MFT as the latter met my needs better, but they seem to have plateaued as a platform and are being left behind by the newest sensors from Canon/Sony, which is what is driving the change (first i need to migrate my wildlife stuff over to newer RF lenses though for their much better IS). But i am no tearing rush, as my current rig is still doing the job. 2). As you can guess from the above, i dont have Gear Acquisition Syndrome when it comes to camera stuff. I dont pixel peep at 100% and if i can find a less expensive alternative that meets my needs, then i am perfectly happy going that route. In this particular case, i that intermedia WA range isnt something i use too often: my first WA lens was a Sigma 10-20 but once i got my Tokina 10-17FE, i never once put it back on the camera again. Plus, if i do like it, i will likely think of a way of incorporating a more long-term solution into the next housing, whenever i get around to upgrading. It likely will not be a N85-based Nauticam system, which will render this lens pretty much useless. So i dont want to spend that sum if there are less expensive wet lens alternatives available - hence my question. If there is an option that gives me pretty good results, i will go with that. If this is the only alternative, i will likely not bother - as @JustinO said, that makes more sense than spending $2.5k for a lens that i will only use for a year or so. 3). As it turns out, i actually have a Tokina 10-17 FE left over from my Canon housing days - that was my favorite lens and is one of the reasons why i am leaning towards going back to Canon. 4). Yeah, a 14-42 plus port plus WWL is another option,, as is the 10-17 with the adapter and other port suggested by Chris - i had in fact considered the former a year or so ago. But that means traveling with 3 ports, and giving up on macro opportunities, and again, generally, the idea of adding more adapters, ports, domes, etc just messes with my photography zen. I find myself moving to a more minimalist approach to all my photography - for travel/street, i have gone from going with 3-4 L lenses and 2 DSLRs to a Fuji body, 2 primes and a small zoom. So the idea of a 50-60mm (in FF terms) lens and a wet adapter for WA really appeals to me from a simplicity of travel and setup POV. 5). @Barmaglot yes, i did find the Weefine and Kraken lenses. Would you, or anyone here, have any experience with their IQ? Given that the sharkies are likely atleast 2-3m away (else i will be regretting not attaching my FE!), the water column will likely be the limiting factor in resolution anyway. Thank you everyone for the suggestions. My apologies for seeming to push back on some of them - it isnt so much that, but at this point, i have fairly well-developed preferences on how i like to shoot and with what, and so am trying to see if there are options that fit that. If there arent any, then i will certainly have to check alternatives. So i am making a note of all the suggestions here and i do appreciate people taking the time to post them.. Some of my photos, in case anyone is interested: https://vanditkalia.com/?page_id=13 (And other stuff one level up - the website is a perennial WIP. I like taking photos. Setting up/updating websites, not so much)

Folks, i havent really upgraded or touched my camera setup since 2018 and am gobsmacked by all the various wet lenses, etc that are out there now. While i did use a Macromate wet lens adapter for my Aquatica setup for ages, these wide angle adapters are new to me. I currently shoot with 3 lenses - 8mm fish eye, which is my go-to, a 60mm macro (which is for specialized subjects and dives) and a 30mm macro as a versatile lens for shooting a wide range of subjects. I was recently looking through the Nauticam website and their MWL-1 adapter caught my eye - the ability to convert my 30mm lens into a 150 degree FOV makes it super versatile option, and it would be an ideal lens for a lot of dives (eg, the Egypt liveaboard trip i am leading in late August). Then i saw the price and wept (I dont know what hurt more - the $21xx for the lens or the $329 for the adapter). All of that is a lengthy preamble to asking - are there other, less expensive options i can consider as well? I really dont want to sink $2000-plus on the Nauticam, as i likely am going to change my setup to a Canon MLC in a year or two. TIA!

Folks, i have an old Inon Z240 sitting around now, not getting as much use as I have moved to the Supe D-Pros. Was thinking of using it for backlighting for some shots but am not sure if it is going to get triggered in the water by my main strobes going off. Have any of you tried doing so and if so, what has worked and hasn’t worked? (I will obviously experiment myself, but figured it would be nice to learn from people who have already tried this, as a starting point). TIA!

Long-term (although not very frequent) member of Wetpixel here - member there since 2005, apparently. Logged in there recently, found it very quiet, learned about Waterpixel and well, here i am. Am primarily a nature/wildlife/underwater photographer but have been dabbling a little more in street of late. Underwater, I have been using Canon/Aquatica since 2005 but switched to Nauticam/MFT in 2018 for the smaller size/ease of travel. Long term Inon user, had a brief (and regrettable) dalliance with Sea&Sea - never again. Recently picked up a Supe D-Pro for my Raja Ampat trip a few weeks ago - loved it enough to buy another at the end of it, relegating my old Inon Z240s to back-up duty. Contemplating going back to Canon at some point. Anyway, looking to be intermittently active here (not TOO active, because then my gadget lust goes into overdrive! :)).