FX1 & White Balance Issues

Think i will take both the Z and the 950 with me tomorrow and put them on the reef and set WB with same slate, same conditions etc. and post a screen grab from both. Going to the outer reef so should be good viz.

OK, I think I know what will help. To get a bluer background, MWB 10-20' above your shooting depth. Then as you descend to shoot, the WB will have a cooler, bluer look. If you MWB deep, and then shoot shallower, your video will have a warmer, redder look. Remember, the color temp of the natural light changes with depth. When MWBalancing with a card, make sure you use the white side of the card facing the sun. The grey side is for setting exposure, and would probably give you a poor WB setting. I have found that I get the exact same color balance with HDV as I did with DV. Blue is still blue, etc. HDV absolutely blows away DV when shot correctly.

Folks, I have a deep concern that this is a housing issue. Us Phenom guys are having all kinds of problems and you guys aren't...very polar experiences. Remember the whole electonic WB issue both Amphibico and LMI had with the HC1. Finally bagged it all together. I talked to LMI today and they described what the HC1 electonic WB attempts were producing...sounded strangely consistent with what we are experiencing. I have a sneaking suspicion this is the same issue with the electonic WB and the FX1...I mean why wouldn't it be.

This is purely spectulation but the feedback is starting to ring familiar. If so, us Phenom guys have a really big issue on our hands. I am looking into a way to test this...what we need is a side by side with a Phenom housing and another fx1 housing on the same dive setting WB in the same ways. If they are noticably different we have an answer....not a good one sadly.

For the record, I dove with a guy for a week who was using his FX1 in the aquavideo housing (manual button on WB). He was using more aggressive WB techniques but boy was his footage much richer and bluer than mine...too much to explain from mearly WB techniques now that I look back on it.

Thoughts?

YOu could be right but doesn't really make sense. Although Dan is alluding to it, I have no doubt about my WB techniques, i know they work. A different camera and housing shouldn't make a diff in WB techniques that worked very well with my 950.

The thing that really bugs me is there is such a diff in the screen of the camera and what comes out on the computer. Watching them side by side as it downloads is painful....

I think it more of a camera issue than housing. I don't think the housing could affect it that much?

turn down your cam screen brightness to 1/3 and it is much closer to what you get on the video...I found it about 90%. All the green suddenly appeared in the screen underwater. I think the brightness on the cam screen boosts the blue mostly.

I would be interested why you think it doesn't make sense. It is not a WB technique issue...it's electronics. My theory it is the PHenom accessing the WB incorrectly through electonics...just like the HC1 issue. Two hdv cams both made by Sony leveraging much of the same technology...stands to reason that if this did not work on the HC1, it may not work on the FX1/Z1. Only a real field test will offer definitive proof however.

-Shawn

Well I have been busy.

I have just finshed making my Phenom a manual WB button.

How...well that little ND thingy that we never use, I took the bracket off on the inside of the housing and made a custom lever that now when you push the ND knob in on the housings it pushes the manual WB button on the FX1. cool hey.. If Im shallow you just need to spin the shutter speed up to handel the excess light so don't use it anyhow.

Will see how that goes, and if so I may be busy making brackets for everyone.

Messing around with it uptop, normal electronic WB takes 20 secs to get it's act together then it's quick after that. With the manual now it's instant but once you have used the electronic WB method the manual one does not work, it just flashes for ever.. so the electronics are messing with the camera abit I suppose. To reset it you just shut the camera down and then reboot and you can then use the Manual WB method which is instant and it's reall easy to use as well.

I'm with Mike as well (I have no doubt about my WB techniques, i know they work. A different camera and housing shouldn't make a diff in WB techniques. ) Been doing it now for over 10 years and my stuff has been on many overseas docos...

Anyhow Stay tuned for my report on the new manual WB for the Phenom....part # 007-A

Wags

Wow, sorry to hear that. L&M originally listed WB Button on their Bluefin HD Left Handgrip (which still shows on the website), but is not on the production housings. I mentioned a few posts back that it might be the electronically controlled WB. Bad news for sure. You better contact Amphibico ASAP about this issue. L&M may be able to tell you why they cancelled it on the Bluefin HD, there must have been a pretty good reason for that. The WB control L&M did use works excellent. Amphibico should fix this major problem for free!!!

One thing i forgot to mention.

With the WB, triggering it just on the camera by pressing the button results in the icon on the screen blinking and locking...typical WB function.

When it is in the housing and the WB button is pushed the icon does not blink and set. However, the colour does shift like it is supposed to. Perhaps the shift it is doing is not correct?

Dan, when you hit your WB on the L&M does the icon blink? Do you have a push button the side of the housing that just presses the button?

I played around with it a bunch today and adjusted VF brightness levels, shots some tests in both PAL and NTSC, test shots using a slate as well as auto WB... all on land mind you.

Some interesting things but nothing conclusive or even worth posting.

I wonder if Wagsy's new manual WB over ride will result in something interesting?

Looking forward to your test Wags. Would be very interesting to see you shoot two test shots in the exact same position using your new manual WB and the electronic WB.

I want someone to show up here with a different housing for the same camera and then we can go out side by side and compare.

Wags,

nice work. I can't wait to hear what you find. we would love to see you go down and test white balance using the manual button and the electrocnic...one after anotherr. be sure to share what you find out.

way to go. Wags , you may have the first housinng on the market now with redundant white balance!

shawn

Im back from a small test out in some shallow green water off the beach testing the manual and electronic WB on the Phenom, and................are you all waiting for it............still waiting.....

Well you had all better click here for a look.

http://www.hdvunderwater.com/phenomwb.htm

Hint: who is going to break the news to Amphibico!

More soon

Wags

Good work Wags!

Wow, that is a huge diff!!!! I have been discussing this with a guy i work with here today. Yep, i think its an Amphibico problem.....

Could you post those two screen grabs on this thread?

I will contact amphibico and have them read this thread....

Mike

Mike I thought of you on dialup.

Its only a link to a page and there is a 600kb tiny video clip there.

I'll do some more testing tomorrow on a normal dive but it looks like it could be the problem. The bracket only took a couple hours to design and make and it works great, one push and away it goes.

Congratulations Wagsy, all the Phenom owners should be very grateful for the inexpensive and effective fix. You should post this on other UW Video forums. I would gladly give up ND Filter for proper white balancing. Glad you guys have a fix for your green video problems.

I spoke with Amphibico about this issue earlier this week. The assurred me it was impossible that the electonics was the issue. This is the reason I started this thread! I then turned to challenging HDV as the possible source. Then it struck me after talking with LMI. If it didn't work on the HC1, why would it work on the FX1.

Wags, way to go and get proof. Furthermore, very impressive "fix". I really wish Amphibico had not released this housing with 2 major issues now: vignetting and now WB issues:(

Thanks guys for getting to the bottom of this...a forum at work!

Yes Shawn that's what got me thinking and seeing L&M still have the electronic button on their site but decided to go for a manual button and the other guys with different houings not really having the problem with the colour.

Just to double check again, Im heading out again today for a couple dives so will do some more tests to make sure I'm 100% totaly correct on this.

Will post as soon as I get back.

Stay tuned.

I'm back.

I have yet to edit what I filmed today but...

I have found some very interesting facts about the WB.

I will post some more details soon, but the footage I got today done by my new manual fix is very different to the electronic method.

I think Amphibico need some new underwater field testings guys as this should of been picked up. Cheap housings I can understand , but I paid big bucks for this thing.

Full update and what I found out comming up.

Wags