Problem w/ S&S YS90DX

I am using an Aquatica A5000 housing with a Nikon CP5000 with firmware 1.7. My normal setup is 1 YS90DX attached to the housing with a sync cord and the other YS90DX being used as a TTL Slave. Both strobes are next to the camera attached to a camera tray for this test.

Problem: Strobe A Sync cord attached and strobe A set to TTL, No Slave. Strobe B set to TTL, Slave On. I take a picture of the subject that is 2 ft away from the lens AND the strobe. Strobe B will do a full dump of power (overexposure) even though Strobe A does a proper TTL reading/exposure. If I turn off Strobe B (TTL/Slave), Strobe A’s exposure is still correct. Now, if I switch the Sync cable to Strobe B and set Strobe A as the TTL/Slave then Strobe A will do a full dump and overexpose and Strobe B will work fine with the TTL/Sync. This only happens on close subjects (1-3 ft) and my only problem is the TTL/Slave exposure.

It looks as though the TTL/Slave is not squelching properly

Any Ideas? S&S said to send them in to take a look.

Just got word today that my strobes are on their way back to me and I should have them tomorrow. Miki was trying to explain to me what was wrong and he sure was saying a lot but the only thing I really understood was new slave PCB. I hope when I get them back they will have a service invoice saying what was done. If not I'll email them and let you know.

Good news Bob. Let us know.

Cheers

James

Well I got my strobes back today and the reapir order said that they replaced the camera PCB assembly and adjusted the TTL system.

When I started to do my testing, one of the strobes when put into slave mode (manual or TTL) would sync about a 1/4 second slower than the strobe that was using the sync cord. I swithched the sync cord to the other strobe and they synced properly so it was just the one strobe. i put the call into Sea&Sea and they said to send the one strobe back in. As I played around with it more it started to work correctly (about two hours later) and as of right now it is syncing correctly.

As for the initial problem (slave dumping full power on close up shots) it was not fixed. It now does the full dump at about 1.5 ft instead of 2 ft. I am really tired of the whole thing and am thinking of going with a dual sync cord.

If anyone has two YS90DX strobes I would appreciate it if you could try this same procedure out and let me know if you get the same results. Just PM or email me and I can tell you how to set up the strobes like I did.

I guess I'll be talking with Sea&Sea again.

Well I went out and got a dual sync cord for my two 90dx's. Now I have a new problem. When I shoot a frame for the first time ecerything is normal. After the first shot the strobes will not fire unless I turn them both off and then back on again. If I turn either one off the other will fire every time. I'm really getting PO'ed at these things. Any ideas????? It really took a lot of restraint to keep this post G rated!

The condition Rstark describes is exactly what happens when two old style Ikelite SubStrobes are combined with a dual sync cord to current Nikon cameras. Sounds like Sea & Sea may have a similar problem. Sync circuit requirements started changing with the Nikon F5 and continue through current Coolpix cameras. Ikelite changed their strobes to be compatible with these current cameras, but found the strobes no longer work correctly with Motomarine cameras. Following URL is a description on our web site:

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/qstrobe.html

Thanks Ike. It's not sounding too good for me. I will be in touch with S&S on monday and I might even drive down if that will help them resolve this. I guess the extra money for the Ike DS125 might have been worth it.

Your comparison is wrong. YS90DX is identical to our SubStrobe DS-50, and not even close to the same league as the SubStrobe DS-125. Following URL describes:

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/compare_ys60.html

I see what you mean. Although I was comparing the features more than the power which for me is more important. I did have a DS50. The reason the ds50 was not for me was because of the limited manual exposure control. I realize that you now offer the seperate exposure controller and that helps. In the future if you come out with another flash that size with at least four (full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4) manual control options I think it will be the perfect strobe for that size as the ds125 is for it's size.

Hi Bob,

When you halve the power of a strobe, you reduce its output by one f-stop. The difference between f8 and f11 is twice as much light!

So that fact is very helpful when shooting manual strobe. Reduce output to 1/2 and you are down by one stop from full. By 1/4 (which is 1/2^2) and you are down by 2 stops. Next is 1/8 which is 1/2^3 or a reduction of 3 f-stops.

This is why I like Ike's DS125 (or many other strobes for that matter). You can actually "be a thinking man" when you use them to get good manual exposures. That little dial on the back of the YS-90DX is too confusing! That's why most people seem to use that strobe with a shotgun "lather-rinse-repeat" approach. Not a good way to do underwater photography, in my opinion.

Cheers

James

I absolutely agree with the dial being too confusing. I actually thought when I was getting it that twelve exposure setting would be nice. But after using it you realize that four to six would be enough. I really wish Ikes ds50 had four exposure settings because I like the size. But for now I'm going to try to make what I have work. Mabey Ike will offer a trade up program

You mean the fact that the S&S provides increments of less than one stop makes it confusing? Perhaps your camera should also limit you to 3 full stop increments. The S&S provides a range of 7 stops with half stops in part of the range.

I'd also like to know how the 90 watt-second YS90DX strobe is "identical" to the DS-50. What is it about the DS-50 that makes it essentially twice as efficient as its competitor? Same batteries, twice the cycles, faster recycle, and published watt-second numbers all suggest that the YS90DX is nearly twice as powerful electrically. Since Ike claims equal light output and coverage, why is there such a difference in efficiency? S&S lists the YS90DX land guide number at 72, not 51 as shown on Ike's site.

Craig,

Get out your flash meter and do a test! I'd love to see the results - please post them here if you have both strobes available. I personally think Ike's numbers are more "honest."

I used the YS90DX with 12 power settings and now the DS125 with 1/2, 1/4, and 1/8th. Yes, the 90DX is definitely more confusing and harder to use. Are 1/2 stop increments necessary? I don't really think so after this weekends dives. Honestly, we're talking about moving the strobe 6 inches here. But I can always change my mind...:-)

What I like about having more increments is that you can go to less than 1/8th power. That is VERY important w/ consumer digicams which overexpose/blow out easier than my DSLR.

Cheers

James

I'm not arguing the value of 1/2 stop increments, just that they aren't hard to understand. If you want full stops over a three stop range, limit yourself to the upper half of the control and click twice. Ike's manual controller provides 1/2 stop increments.

I don't own a DS-50 and don't plan to keep my YS90DX's (although I liked them better than I expected to).

Still, it's beyond quiestion that if two strobes put out identical light and use identical batteries, yet one provides twice as many cycles and a faster recycle time, that power is being wasted in the other. I think it far more likely that the YS90DX is simply a more powerful strobe.

I have to say that I have gotten used to the 90dx's 12 settings. What I HATE (and I can't say that strongly enough) is that the knobs are useless with cold water gloves on. As long as they (S&S) can solve this issue with the dual sync cord I'll be happy.

The saga continues....

I talked to one of the senior techs at Sea&Sea (USA) today. I told him about the dual sync cord not working after the first shot. He has not heard of this problem before. I told him what Ike said in a previous post and he was very sorry but needed to see the strobes again. I told him if he wanted I would come in and show him what the problem is. He said that would be great and I told him I would be in first thing in the morning. So I was charging up a few sets of batteries for the camera and strobes so I could put them in and be ready to go as soon as I got there. I did a few test shots and guess what.... it worked. Now at this point I am thinking to myself what I could have screwed up for it not to work yesterday and I am positive I triple checked everything yesterday when it wasn't working. Then it occured to me that I did a few things the day before that might have caused the problem. One is that when I first hooked up the strobes to test them I popped off a few pictures then a friend called to go to lunch and I left them on. When I came back a few hours later I noticed that one of the strobes batteries had died so I replaced the batteries in both strobes. It is at this point that I had problems. So tonight I thought should I just leave them on for a few hours or just try switching the batteries? I choose the quicker of the two and swapped batteries. Now here is where the problem lies I think. I switched from 1600mAH batteries to 2000mAH batteries and what do you know... it stopped working! I put the 1600mAH batteries in and they work. So it is the something about the larger capacity batteries that is doing this. I will still take them into S&S to see what they have to say about it.

AHHHHHH!

I sat with the tech from Sea&Sea today for over an hour. First of all it is not the batteries. I don't know why it was working the other day with one set and not the others but we put regular alkalines in and it did the same thing. Now Ike's suggestion about the newer style TTL circuitry is not the problem as we connected a F100 to the a5000 housing bulkhead and it fired every time. I am thinking of taking the whole setup to Nikon Torrance Repair facility and see if they can troubleshoot it. I think most likely they won't even try, they'll just check the camera and say it is working fine. Any suggestions?

When you say you switched the batteries and it wouldn't work, was the ready light on and it just wouldn't fire or were you not getting the ready light?

I had a recent dive trip where one YS90Dx wouldn't come on after installing freshly charged 1800 nimh batteries. I had 4 different sets, some by different manufacturers but none worked. Put in some regular AA's and the light came on. Spent the rest of the time using regular AA's. Got home, and works fine with the same rechargeables that wouldn't work before. Weird.

The ready light was on for both flashes and camera and it will fire multiple times every once in a while but 90% of the time it won't. Haven't had any problems with them not turning on though.

Hi Bob,

Without re-reading this whole thread, have you ruled out Sync Cord problems?

Cheers

James