S&S 350D housing and TTL Converter

Well I caught the DSLR bug and recently outfitted a Canon 350D (Digital Rebel XT) with a Sea & Sea housing, S&S TTL Converter, two Inon Z-240's, Athena dome, and ports for a Canon EFS 60mm macro and EFS 10-22mm W/A.

Having had pretty good success with a previous Inon D-2000 in S-TTL mode optically connected to a Canon S70, I decided to fit my S&S 350D housing with the newly launched S&S TTL Converter (I believe this is Heinrich's OEM converter inside). After sorting out some strobe settings with Yuzo, I did some quick test shots tonight using the 60mm macro lens and the TTL converter. The results aren't perfect across the aperture range, but I guess I can live with it given that the TTL converter has an EV dial to make quick adjustments at your fingertip (vs. adjusting the strobes). The way S&S has the TTL converter mounted on the left handle, you can just stretch out your index finger to adjust the converter EV dial...

Anyways, here are some of the results. It would have been nice if I could post the histograms along with the photos but I think you get the idea...

Camera set to Manual mode, shutter=1/100, ETTL II custom setting set to "average"* (*as recommended by S&S). Shot in raw w/ no adjustments other than resizing.

f1/2.8

f1/4.5

f1/8.0

f1/13

f1/16

f1/22

f1/32

I dont get it?

Why manual? why not do the same thing with Aperture priority.

In A priority If the converter works allright, then all the pictures should be exposed more or less the same?! or...

Manual is fine. Most people shoot macro in manual.

Looks pretty good!

Cheers

James

Manual is fine.  Most people shoot macro in manual.

 

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I know, I do aswell, but why not shoot with A priority when you have TTL flashes?

Vannar, I don't get your question. I shoot Manual, because I like to have control over the shutter speed as well. But yes, aperture priority should work just as well, but there maybe times where you might want a faster shutter speed than what the camera automatically selects to avoid blurring.

Hi pakman,

I'm interested in your choice of the glass Athena dome in preference to either of the Sea & Sea domes. Apart from the fact it's glass what led you to go for this option? I'm not clear how this dome compares in size to the compact dome and the fisheye dome from Sea & Sea.

Trevor, the Athena Dome is around 7"diameter so I think its about the same size as the S&S compact dome. To be honest, it was largely the glass vs acrylic arugment, although my wallet is hurting from this choice. It's over twice as much as the S&S compact dome. Given that I'm pretty green to a DSLR underwater, I probably won't appreciate the benefits of it til my skill level improves...

Vannar, I don't get your question.  I shoot Manual, because I like to have control over the shutter speed as well. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dont worry I was just thinking out loud...

But I must say that I am interested to se how it works in A priority.

Is it possible for you to do the same topside test with A priority and TTL flash?

/Jonas

Hi Pakman,

I have also a Sea&Sea housing but for a Canon 5D and one Z-240.

I'm getting the TTL converter.

I was also interesting to know how the converter work.

To set the camera in manual is ok.

How was the converter setting? the button was on 0EV position? or on Manual?

I think to get the advantage of this converter, must be on 0EV position (or + - to adjust the light).

But it seem that on your pictures than the TTL doesn't work. I mean, if the TTL works, all the pictures must have the same exposure.

Waiting to get more news.

Claude

Vannar,

Canon in "A" mode and using TTL flashes is differnt than Nikon dSLR cameras. Nikon's KNOW there is a TTL strobe attached and will lock teh shutter speed into a range, like maybe no slower than 1/60 and as fast ast the max. synch speed.

In "A" aperture priority mode with TTL flash a Canon dSLR will still try and pick a shutter speed to balance the available light reading. So for instance if you pick f11, the shutter speed might be 1/6 of a second! TTL will still try and adjust the flash output for your chosen aperture, but the camera's selected shutter speed might be way too slow and cause a blurred photo anyway.

There is a menu option on Canon dSLR cameras (on my Rebel XT anyway) to lock the shutter speed in "A" mode to 1/200. This is useful for night dives or if you want a black background.

So that's primarily why Canon dSLR shooters with TTL choose M mode where they can set a shutter speed for background color / exposure and then choose an f-stop to work with TTL. flash.

Hope this explains it

dhaas

thank dhaas, I was just about to post that about the Rebet XT (350D) and A mode...

Claude, well I wouldn't say "the TTL converter is not working" but would say its not perfect and there is significant f stop difference at the extremes (1/2.8 to f1/32). But I believe this is still within the ev adjustments of the TTL converter. I'll leave it to the readers' judgement, whether you're no worse off just controlling the strobes manually. The TTL converter and housing plug modification isn't cheap... I would be curious to hear back from others who might have either the S&S TTL Converter or Heinrich's. I'd also be curious to hear if Ikelite's is more accurate?

And yes, these were shot with the TTL converter ev dial at "0". The Z-240 mode dial is put on STLL, ev dial is at "TTL" (9 o'clock setting), and the adv. circuit cancel button is pushed in. This is how I was instructed to operate the TTL converter. On the camera, S&S warns to set the ettl II settting in the custom menu to "average" instead of the default "evaluative".

If I have time this weekend, I'll try to do some more tests. Maybe with a less reflective object than a shiny alu diet coke can!

Pakman,

I'm surprise that is not accurate well, maybe is due to the Z-240.

maybe, with -1EV on the converter, it will have less difference between the extreme aperure.

I'm will be interesting to know what's append with a Sea&Sea strobe.

Tomorrow, I will get also a same converter as you.

So, I will make also a test.

I'm looking to buy a second strobe. I think, I will wait for the S&S YS-110 and see if it woks better than the Z-240 with this converter.

Yes, I wonder if the converter was tweaked for S&S strobes as they are the only ones that S&S lists as compatible strobes. But then again, Heinrich's website says the Z-240's are compatible with his converters.

Anyways, look fwd to seeing if you have better results with yours.

cheers,

Aah, thanks dhaas for clarifying... I am a canon shooter aswell but I´m shooting with maual strobes so I havent really reflected over how TTL works with my camera.

I was however thinking of installing the heinrich converter in my housing, but your results are forcing me to rethink this descicion, with an "inhousing" TTL converter there is no way of finetuning the flash output.

Then again I guess you can use the cameras exposure compensation, have anyone tried this?

Pakman and Vannar,

The results with "zero" TTL compensation (or FEC, for flash exposure compensation in Canon terms) are not that surprising. But if it is working as designed, especially with Average metering selected versus Evaluative the results should be a bit closer together. Or it could be like you say designed for Sea and Sea strobes only versus INON's flash protocol.

As far as using eTTL2 and adjusting via a housing, Ikelite's housings with Canon eTTL2 and Nikon iTTL are the most sophisticated and accurate on the market with their DS series strobes. Any TTL system will have limitations such as trying to shoot wide open (f2.8) from less than 1' away in which case TTL may not be able to quench the flash fast enough. Or shooting at F32 from 6' away as the flash can't put out any more power than a full power dump!

You adjust FEC just as you do a surface flash unit on the back of Ikelite's housings via push buttons (or a dial on the Nikon D200 housing) for the level of FEC you want to apply. I shoot on the surface with a Canon 430EX (and occassionally a 580EX) and simply "dial down" the flash output -.5 - 1.0. The camera and strobe "talk" to each other limiting the flash output.

This works exactly the same especially for wide angle shooting underwater. I shoot eTTL2 all the time underwater and find it frees me to concentrate on framing ensuring I get a high percentage of properly exposed shots. Certainly more than shooting manually.....Bu I shoot this way with flash everywhere I threw away so many slides when TTL first came out trying to second guess the systems. Today's engineering marvels are WAAYY more developed and accurate. But many photographers refuse to try and / or learn to use them.

I'm not sure of the accuracy of Henrich's / Sea and Sea controller. I believe it has had several revisions and this may be the latest.

Hope some of this explanation helps you explore the NEW world of sophisticated TTL for our digital SLR cameras

dhaas

Dave....

Sooo, the EV compensation you do, say -.5, -1 etc..... kinda similar to going from f5.6 to f6.3 to f8?

You get the advantage of what? A micro increment in DOF?

You are still utilizing bracketing... i am interested in knowing your thoughts on what benefits you gain from using EV on the TTL/Strobe as opposed to just changing your fstop....

Wow, those exposures look very good to me. The two at f2.8 and f4 are maybe 1/2 stop off, and that's not bad for ANY TTL system. Not to mention that most people don't shoot macro at f2.8. It looks like a winner to me.

Dave,

Your post is interesting reading - however not totally accurate. Nikon cameras put a FLOOR on the shutterspeed at 1/60th but if you put the camera in rear or slow sync it will go to whatever the available light meter tells it to do. I think most people shoot Rear when they are in A mode - I know I did.

In your recent post, you said: "Ikelite's housings with Canon eTTL2 and Nikon iTTL are the most sophisticated and accurate on the market with their DS series strobes."

How can you back that up? The Ikelite TTL converters work pretty well, but they only work with Ikelite strobes. Then the Ikelite iTTL for the D200 has been problematic, but it is a new item so we'll cut Roger some slack :-) However, since you haven't compared the Ike converter to the Heinrich's and the Sea and Sea converter, how can you say the Ike is the best?

IMO if the Sea and Sea converter will work with many different strobes (and it looks like it works pretty darned well w/ the Inon) AND it's an external unit that is not build into the housing, (So I can use it w/ my Seacam) then the Sea and Sea unit looks like the way to go to me.

Cheers

James

James and all,

This is a good discussion so here goes.......

Mike, I bet I can keep rapid firing at a moving critter with my -.5 - 1.0 EV dialed in not having to adjust ANY control faster than any shooter can reach up to ANY housing screwing around changing settings. All while the fish, ray, dive buddy, etc. swims off.....I'm not bracketing, just relying on the camera and strobe(s) to "talk" and manage light output.....

The whole idea of TTL is to free up constantly changing settings......Not to mindlessly rely on an "ALL AUTO" setting like putting a dSLR on the green box "dummy" mode. Allowing a quicker method of controlling light from a strobe through under or over exposure to create a photo's mood. I have learned what range f-stops work well for what distances and this frees me from missing shots as described. I certainly don't think my technique is perfect, or I'm special as shooter. I just have practiced with these systems a bit more and try and share how they can be used to a photographer's advantage in real world UW shooting

James, I believe my post said yes, Ikelite's eTTL2 and iTTL work with ikelite DS strobes only. I find it hilarious that all the posters who dismissed TTL now think TTL offered in a package for any housing MUST be great! Versus the fact that ikelite has incorporated TTL in more camera brands / models than anyone. But yeah, you have to use their brand strobes. Isn't that great!

I also stated Nikon cameras as you mention impose a "range" of TTL shutter speeds automatically in "A" mode with a TTL flash connected and fired up. It doesn't surprise me that you can now throw that limitation out the window through a menu choice. But I'll bet a beer that anyone screwing around with the myriad of menu choices on their D200 will create many "slow shutter" speed shots they didn't intend before they figure out why the camera is doing this. After the shooter "TOLD" their camera to do this

Light drops fast UW where a camera in "A" mode at f8 or smaller is going to pick a dangerously slow shutter speed. Which is fine if that's the effect you're after. But I'd bet another beer most shooters are trying to just get into position for a good angle and pull the trigger while praying they selected the correct f-stop

James, I haven't heard about DS200 TTL problems. Who/ where is having exposure problems on iTTL or eTTL2? Maybe I can help them out (????)

I am 99% sure the Ikelite TTL is more accurate than "within a stop" that was posted somewhere recently about Heinrich's LATEST version of his convertor. (On DDN, maybe, can't remember...) I'm not picking on Heinrich's convertor or his engineering efforts. He has revised it to the point where it looks promising. I just get tired of hearing that he has invented something "NEW" and INNOVATIVE' when it aint'.

Maybe Roger from Ikelite as you state will chime in on how tight his expsoure are for eTTL2 and iTTL accuracy....

All I know is from selling dozens of iTTL and eTTL housings that it works and has been working for many shooters when they are willing to learn how to use it. Plus for me and I like to think I'm a pretty demanding customer, too

As always, YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY

dhaas

Wow,

Boy,do I overuse the Smiley Faces

(Couldn't resist one more)

Dave

Here's the same series run on a Canon 20D in an Aquatica house, with Heinrich. Two Ike DS-125, 60mm lens, about 6 ft from subject. I didn't put on the port, so that it was easier to hold. Speed set at 125. Hmm what else. Oh yeah, I was in a hurry, because the beer was getting warm. We set a 100 year record today in Portland, OR. Warmest day in June ever. 101 F.

The installation does not offer any external adjustment to the output. I have only used it on a couple of dives, but using raw and staying in the middle ground it seems to work well. I am satisfied with it anyway for now. I was suprised it darkened so much at f32.

f1/2.8

f1/4.5

f1/8.0

f1/13

f1/16

f1/22

f1/32