Subtronic nightmare continues...

a guest here at the mo has the Seacams. Also big and has that nice colour temp setting. Do Seacam make them or are they just a branded Subtronic or Hartenburger?

Great looking strobes and i know very powerful with fantastic lighting options.. but in this day and age of travel stuff.. very very heavy.

Robert, what about Sea and Sea 350? Anyone here use those?

if it is the latest seacams (250 ttl digital) they are seacam made now. they don't use the subtronics electronics anymore. they look great seem to work great, but the batteries are not user removable which can be an issue when travelling. i can just imagine having to leave 5k worth of strobes in yap because security won't let me take them because of batteries

Alex and others...

Some thoughts...

I'm not sure any manufacturors of electronic equipment in saltwater has a flawless record. Back in the old days when I would go on my extended workholidays for a month or more of tropical diving I expected that during the 100+ dives I would do I would have numerous meltdowns. It might be strange to many that only minute traces of salt in the air can get in a chargeing port/battery compartment etc and create a salt bridge on a circuit board. Thats usually what happened with my ikelite 50strobes. I had 6 strobes and a couple of spare circuit boards on most trips. They usually kept me in buisness with two macro rigs (film days) but not allways.

What I'm trying to say is: It happens a lot and with everyones strobes!

I have had two subtronic megas now for 5 years. They have worked flawlessly!! I have had the cells changed on both one of them before, now one has been fitted with NiMh cells. At the same time they upgraded the cells they made a small hole in the contact to allow overpressure to seep out. It wouldn't surprise me if this can be a possible problem in the future even if we are talking overpressure here.

As to Alexes problem I think they have not replaced the entire unit inside the flash. And thus the possibility of a part creating the problem still present in the strobe still lurks. A new part still gets fried with the problem not being changed. Ask for a new strobe entirely!

Knownig Alex he probably only uses the flash in manual, which is the easiest thing to produce and fix..

Another thing Alex. How is the flash attached to the camera? Only trigger or full 5 pin? I can only use trigger reliably with the D2x and the Subtronics. Do you have a slave function on the alphas?

Espen :-)

Hi Alex

A couple of thoughts.

I'm not too sure that Subtronics like baggage handlers too much - I've had one go down immediately after a flight which makes me wonder whether they are susceptible to knocks.

Secondly, just how old is your flash and how many flashes has it produced - especially full power? I ask because I'd say that a flsah unit has at most a (reliable) 10 year life (yes I know that there will be exceptions) and given the amount of shooting you do it may be that the electronics are simply worn out or that you have hammered one particular unit. I now work on the basis that units require servicing every few years and will be replaced well before they are 10 years old (probably when I reckon they are due for a second service. If, on the other hand, you simply have an unreliable unit, well perhaps its time to replace it already.

I'm using a pair of Inon 2000s and a pair of Sea & Sea YS90DXs. I miss the power and spread of the SS200s, but then I again I always missed that for at least part of the year every year since I bought them.

I think we should expect failures from time to time, and if amenable to our respective budgets should set some limitation to the effect of failures by carrying spares. My SS200s were not reliable for the first couple hundred dives or so, but after having Ike work on them a few times have been rock solid for the last 5 or 6 years. I wouldn't have been that patient with another other strobe, but like you really enjoyed the light from the 200s. Though I always did, and still do, carry 5 strobes because it is my belief that in time something SHOULD go wrong considering the activity. That some of these companies make equipment which is as reliable as they are is really quite amazing. After all, the environment for their use is at best, hostile, and many of us treat out photo gear like tools rather than treasured heirlooms.

I carry a limited redundancy in equipment (my extras = 3 strobes, 1-D2x, 5-synch cords, 2-CF cards, 2-hard-drives, 1-reg, 1-mask, straps etc.) simply because it helps make the 10 grand or so one spends for a couple weeks in some distant location a little more protected from devaluation due to equipment failures. Plus my time away from the office, while generous, is limited and I don't want any of that wasted either.

If you shoot long enough your old gear tends to become your backups, but in some cases, cameras in particular, sometimes you just bite the bullet and buy extras. I'd feel somewhat naked going off for 2 or 3 weeks of diving/shooting and not carrying backups.

a guest here at the mo has the Seacams. Also big and has that nice colour temp setting. Do Seacam make them or are they just a branded Subtronic or Hartenburger?

 

Great looking strobes and i know very powerful with fantastic lighting options.. but in this day and age of travel stuff.. very very heavy.

 

Robert, what about Sea and Sea 350? Anyone here use those?

Yes the Seacams are heavy. They are luckily not made be Subronic or Hartenberger. The electronics come from Italy and are 100% digital. I just had a software upgrade on the strobes and that fixed some minor problems with exposure compensation.

I've been locked away writing a book since my other Alpha was finally returned from Subtronic. Now I'm getting really depressed! Is it going to fail yet again? I have just ditched my Subal for an entirely different housing (it's in the cupboard if you want it!). Do I have to go out and buy alternative strobes too?

It's all very well saying carry more spares but my annual budget for excess baggage (we only get 20kg of checked baggage in Europe unless we go West) is already hitting hard. I can onlyafford to carry two Alphas.

I knew I should have trained as a a lawyer and got a proper job!

Thank you all for the feedback + advice. I have returned my strobe to the dealer (well it was nice to see it again for a couple of weeks before it goes off on its travels again), and they will return it to Subtronic. I will send a polite follow up email to Subtronic today (while I am thoroughly pissed off with them, I think it is important not to shut off channels of communication).

To some extent I am encouraged by the fact it is the same one that keeps breaking - as the other one has therefore worked perfectly throughout. I am also pleased that the problems occur in the middle of trips - suggesting it is not part of the travel that is breaking the strobe.

The timing is a pain - as I am off again on two trips soon.

I agreee with Espen on the diagnosis. There must be something else in the strobe causing the manual power settings to fail. Or they have a dodgy batch of replacement components?

I shoot the strobes on manual power - and there are connected via two pins to the camera (trigger and earth).

Anyway it is all very frustratiing. I am like John, I can afford to buy replacements - but I can't afford the luggage allowance to travel with them.

Alex

I don't have any insights on the cause of the strobe failure, but do have a simple suggestion for dealing with it should the same problem occur. Make a couple of one stop diffusers for the strobe. I've seen people here do that using plastic sheets and bungee cords.

A very useful bit of lateral thinking, Herb. Thanks.

Alex

... They are luckily not made by ... Hartenberger. ...

Luckily??? Well, Hartenberger strobes have a very good reputation in Europe. They have on big advantage over Subtronic and Seacam - the battery packs are removable (in my opinion this will become more and more important in the future when you check in at the airport) and thus can be easily replaced if necessary, or you can take a second battery pack with you and load it while taking photos with the other one.

Fred Bavendam (AKA Seagypsie here in this forum) uses the BIG 600Ws Hartenbergers for his super-macro shots - he just loves them and is convinced of the quality.

I personally have had problems (=strobes stopped working completely) with two Nikon SB104 and recently with one Ikelite SS200. The Nikons were repaired within two weeks by Rene Aumann, but he shut down his business this summer; the Ikelite still has to be sent to the U.S. No idea what is going on at Subtronic. Seems they manage to ruin all the good reputation the old owner, Mr. Thierer, has built over the years.

Joerg

Quote: "Make a couple of one stop diffusers for the strobe"

Lee Filters sell sheet ND filter material - very useful and you can add layers to decrease power! This is clear so won't affect the 'light quality' of the strobe either.

As for removable battery packs - I suspect that more manufacturers will take this route in the not too distant future!

Ha ha. Maybe my nightmare is over. I got my Subtronic back today. Given the track record do you think it will last? I got to Cayman on Saturday - fingers crossed!

The power settings on my Subtronic Alpha first broke in September 2005.

Subtronic took from October to December 2005 to fix it.

Intermittant problem in January, broke properly on Wetpixel shark trip in March 2006.

Subtronic took from April to July 2006 to fix it.

I got it back in August and it broke again on my first trip to Bali, in August 2006.

Subtronic took from September to December 2006 to fix it.

Just got it back. What will happen next...

I've got $20 that it breaks again and you get so fed up with it, that you consign it to the depths by dropping it over one of Cayman's fabulous walls to never been seen from again.

for the latest subtronic experience look here

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16104

I didn't manage to do that many dives with the fixed Subtronic during my short trip to Cayman. But it worked perfectly throughout.

I have another trip on Monday and I will report back after that. If it lasts out that one then it will get the thumbs up from me.

Alex

I think that the Seacam strobes look excellent. But are a bit out of my price range. Although I always hear good reports on their service (both direct and through their dealers).

Alex

Alex, I am shocked! Someone of your stature who has met the Queen should not be having to buy strobes! I would think that any strobe manufacturer would pay YOU to use, and thus advertise their products. Hell, I spent close to $6000 based on your recommendations. (and great advice it was).

Seriously. How can any business person not know that one great review from you on a forum or in UWP mag would result in a nice little spike in sales? I own 3 General Motors dealership franchises and word of mouth advertising is priceless and our most effective form! Also, any competent business owner knows that dissatisfied customers tell their tale ten times more than happy customers. I need two new strobes after lugging around those 55 gal drum Substrobe 100a's. Just from reading this and your comments in Cayman I'll never buy a Subtronic. Not because yours broke, but because customer service is King. And whenever I do buy them, like the money I already spent, it will be from Ryan at Reef Photo because of their customer service that I learned about on this forum.

Put the word out that Alex Mustard is looking for new strobes.

By the way, it was great coming out of the water at Sunset House the other week and saying, "Hey, you sure look a lot like Alex Mustard"

Andy Bryant

I didn't manage to do that many dives with the fixed Subtronic during my short trip to Cayman. But it worked perfectly throughout.

I have another trip on Monday and I will report back after that. If it lasts out that one then it will get the thumbs up from me.

 

Alex

Actually, I attached the wrong photos. I meant to attach this Stingray City pic because it was shot with a Magic Filter. More evidence of the selling power of a good endorsement.

Andy

Well, now it's my time add some input to this thread.

I've the same problem with my Gamma as Alex had on his Alpha. First it only worked in full power and then it stopped charging and then broke down completely.

Subtronic received my strobe the 2/8 and 20 days later and some mails to them from me, I finally got a reply from Subtronic saying "sorry for our late answer, there is much work at the moment.

We send you quotation new few days." and that was over a week ago.

I'll try to call them toady to see if there is any chance that I'll have the strobe with me to Egypt when I go there first of October.

Maybe Subtronic could send some of their staff over to Ikelite for some lessons in customer service...

I have an update too. One of my Subtronic Alpha Pros developed this problem on the wetpixel shark trip - but despite having more than a month before I went to Bali - they could not get it fixed and back to me in time for that trip.

And guess what - in Bali one of my Subtronic Alphas (the same one again) developed the same fault again.

It is a wierd one - because the other Subtronic Alpha has remained faultless throughout. Luckily I took more than two Subtronics on both trips so shooting remained unaffected.

Alex