Underwater filter discussion

Which underwater filter do you use, and why?

Also, does anyone have recommendations for generic CC filters that approximate more expensive filters that are targeted at the underwater market?

I use the Standard L&M filter which has an orange tint. Overall I like it a lot. However it tends to over red the scene at depth. I like the Epodisc concept but seems like tons of work with/with UWA 100/macro/80degree port.

I just use the UR-Pro CY flip filter (I think that's what it is) that comes standard in the Gates housing. As Shawn says the result at depth can be over-red. I might experiment with lighting gels.

my filters are standard ones that come with the gates and the Amphibico

I believe both are tropical UR Pro..

Yes the Urpro filters work the best for tropical diving. Glass ones are beter than plastic, as well I find the closer to the camera lens the better.

I have used Amphibico's RED Aquacolor glass fiters but the URPRO's seem to work better for tropical diving. There seem to be different strength URPRO filters out there as well.

I got a thin plastic Magic Filter of Alex's but stratched it to much before I could use it in my video housing.

I thought I read somewhere on one of the stills forums that the plastic ones are better than the glass because of the coating (or lack of it). Better light transmission perhaps? I might be imagining that though, or have got it the wrong way round.

Yeah, those Magic Filters need treating with care. My mate scratched his very quickly when cutting it up to put in a stills housing.

In the past there have been a number of different filters used by the various manufacturer's. I recall the early ( prior to the current owner ) Gates housings using a in-house filter and the earlier Amphibico housings using the aquacolour filters.

Many people used to replace these filters out with the Ur/ Pro CY filters that seem to be the accepted standard.

Ur/Pro are working on some new SW series for Shallow water filters which seem to be promising.

I personally use the glass version of the Ur Pro filters where possible as they tend to handle rougher treatment ( read scratch less ) that I give them.

FX1 and Z1 have a 72mm filter mount. If you buy a 72mm Glass URPro CC Filter and take it apart, the filter element fits perfectly into the camera, and the filter retaining ring (same 72mm thread) screws right into the camera for a recessed fit, as close to the camera lens as possible. I know, because I've done this. IMO, glass CC Filters have to be better for shooting HD than a plastic one, but I have not verified this yet. Looking through a plastic URPro Filter, and a glass URPro Filter, I think the glass filter looks clearer (unscientific). Too much red on deep dives is not due to the CC Filters, it is due to improper white balance, which is not necessarily our (underwater videographers) fault. CC Filters are "subtractive" filters. They do not add red, but they do remove some blue and green. White balancing at depth underwater can be very difficult, and often impossible. As you know I've been white balancing at depth with an Expodisc. I can't say enough about how well it works. I no longer get blown out reds, and do get very evenly balanced, well saturated colors. Absolutely fantastic looking video despite poor conditions. I'm also looking at alternative white balance filter materials as Wagsy is doing. So far I have not found anything that can match the Expodisc for white balance quality and usefullness.

Dan

Been using a greenwater filter 'UR PRO' for filming in freshwater under 6 metres. Anything above seems to be fine without... Although I also noticed an 'over-reddiness' at around 20metres with the filter on. But was that the original blue water one...Hmmm cannot remember. I found W/balancing through the filter then taking the filter off seem to do the trick sometimes. The amount of sun streaming down made a significant difference as well.

I am going to the South China seas in september and I'm seriously considering the expodisc as we will be diving up to 50metres, but averaging 40M. Any more convincing comments would be appreciated.

Dive safe

DeanB

The glass vs plastic thing was bugging me so I've dug out the old thread. It's at http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1986 and here's the quote from Craig Jones, who knows his stuff big time for both video and stills:

Some people are concerned about image degradation with filters. Tiffen filters are gels sandwiched in green glass as are the UR Pro glass and Aquacolor glass filters. I've noticed quality issues in video at times that appear to be caused by the filter, so I am avoiding the Tiffen filters as well as all glass video filters. B+W, Heliopan, and most Hoya's are dyed-though glass. Singh-Ray, Lee and Hitech are resin. That's what I stick with. For video I've switched to the Singh-Ray FL-B. I've noticed that Amphibico has also moved away from the glass filters.

The theory is that in a sandwiched glass filter you have more boundaries, with the accompanying potential for loss of quality (flare etc.).

Nick

So is the consensus that a SR FL-B would be ok with AWB or only MWB?

I'm tossing up between this option and a URPro, but given that I'll be mounting on the outside of the housing (to make it removable) as there is no flip arm on the TopDawgII.

Any ideas would be appreciated...

Also, how come it isn't an FL-D - I thought the FL-B was for tungsten film??

If you're using a housing that can be manually white balanced, when you get past a few metres the manual white balance is making a much bigger change in the colour than the filter would by itself. As I understand it you can't manually white balance that Top Dawg housing, so I would go with the stronger filter, which I think is the UR-Pro.

In my TRV-40 Stingray II housing I have a blue water filter & a green water filter (neither are UR-Pro though) stuck together in the flip arm, which is the only combination that gives anything like satisfactory results (but still not really satisfactory). That TRV-40 is a weird one though. Specs are the same as a PC-115 but the underwater results are rubbish in comparison.

Nick

Ok, just came back from reading the linked thread.

Craig was talking in terms of DSLRs and mentioned that the "Singh-Ray FL-B is very much like the UR Pro CY filter, only a little less strong."

He goes on to say that "the Hoya FL-D is very similar to the UR Pro GR filter"

He doesn't talk about video or AWB capability though - does anyone have additional comments on this?

Thanks heaps for your insights Nick - you beat me to it... I was busy reading the other thread.

There are zillions of old filter discussions on Wetpixel but here are a couple of interesting ones from other (obviously inferior) forums:

http://www.videouniversity.com/forums/gfor...flat;post=28269

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=133141

p.s. Can't believe the once-great Video University underwater forum is charging now. Looks like Barrett's the only one left posting on there.

Interesting - thanks Nick. Off to read them now...

Geez, they're a bit mean to Alex over there!!

Lucky Ryan stepped in to inject a bit of balance/reality into the discussion.

Oops, sorry Alex. Didn't re-read the threads fully, just had them in my bookmarks.

Someone send me a link to the Scuba board discussion when it just started - and was very anti-me! It is best to stay out of these things when they are very negative!

Today I made the Magic Filters 1st year gallery (with shots people have sent in taken with the filter) and I have to say I am very proud of what the filter can do. I think that gallery will help convince any doubters. I also think that our two new products (to be announced officially in the next week) - will also show people we know what we are doing and the filter is exactly the way it is for a reason.

The Magic Filters position on video is, to quote from our website:

The Magic Filter works well with video cameras and several videographers use the Magic Filter very successfully. That said we do not currently make filters specifically for video cameras, as there are plenty of good video filters already available.

Basically we are saying stick with your UR Pro - unless you want to experiment with something different. I think that the UR Pro CY is a great choicer for video normal diving depths, and the CY-SW is good if you are shooting shallow.

My Magic filters have quite a different look the the UR Pro (I am commenting on still here) - and certainly one that I prefer (the UR Pro produces too Magnetay water for me). But then I would say that.

Alex