Resource for translating latin fish names?

I got the meaning of Periclimenes from the book that Leslie cites above... We have a copy here!

I got the meaning of Periclimenes from the book that Leslie cites above... We have a copy here!

Rocha,

I am confused, you said Periclimenes was honeysuckle, but you got the meaning from the book Leslie cites which says Greek mythological character who could morph into different animals.....

Which one is it? I couldn't find any reference to honeysuckle.....I don't want to narrate "short armed honeysuckle" if it should be "short armed strong shape shifter" from that Jason and the Argonauts movie, lol....

By the way, I found this link to an apparent republished version of the book.

http://www.amazon.com/COMPOSITION-SCIENTIF...TF8&s=books

Rocha,

 

I am confused, you said Periclimenes was honeysuckle, but you got the meaning from the book Leslie cites which says Greek mythological character who could morph into different animals.....

 

Which one is it? I couldn't find any reference to honeysuckle.....I don't want to narrate "short armed honeysuckle" if it should be "short armed strong shape shifter" from that Jason and the Argonauts movie, lol....

 

By the way, I found this link to an apparent republished version of the book.

 

http://www.amazon.com/COMPOSITION-SCIENTIF...TF8&s=books

Luis meant he got the honeysuckle information from Brown's book. I got the reference to Periclymenus the argonaut from "The Classic Latin Dictionary in two parts: Latin-English and English-Latin, compiled from The Best Authorities, introducing illustrative quotations, and historical and geographical notice" published in 1893. It has a lot of the mythological names omitted by Brown's book. Given the marine association of the argonauts I think this is the more likely source for the shrimp name. But maybe we're both right - maybe Periclymenus the argonaut was named for a flower!

Thanks for the amazon link. I didn't know Brown's book was reprinted but as it's so good I"m not surprised.

Well, this is a complicated question, and I guess the simple answer is that we will never know for sure. For some names like brevicarpalis it is really easy, but for names that have many meanings, we don't know what the intention of the scientist that named it was.

Scientists only started writing more detailed descriptions which included an explanation about the etymology of the name after 1900 or so. Before that, descriptions usually consisted of the species name and a single paragraph with the main characters. Here is what is on "Composition of Scientific Names":

Page 599: periclymenum, L. (Gr. periklymenon), woodbine; see honeysuckle.

Page 418 (under honeysuckle): Gr. klymenon, n. a bindweed, honeysuckle; periklymenon, n. a honeysuckle.

Here is what a google search reveals:

LONICERA PERICLYMENUM (= from the Greek name, Periklymenon, for a honeysuckle) Caprifoliaceae Honeysuckle

But you are correct, and Periklymenon is also an argonaut. Since we don't know if the person who named the genus was thinking of the honeysuckle or the argonaut, I guess we will never know, but I think this may give you a clue:

Honeysuckle

Shrimp

So, I vote for honeysuckle shrimp (or shrimp that look like honeysuckles)

Luiz

P.S.: Just had a thought, I am not that familiar with crustacean taxonomy, but taxonomists in general are very consistent. Check if the genus Thor (not the species Thor amboinensis) was described by the same person who described Periclimenes (again, the genus), if they were I bet whoever described them was widely using names from the Greek mythology, and in this case I vote for the argonaut theory!

So, I vote for honeysuckle shrimp (or shrimp that look like honeysuckles)

P.S.: Just had a thought, I am not that familiar with crustacean taxonomy, but taxonomists in general are very consistent. Check if the genus Thor (not the species Thor amboinensis) was described by the same person who described Periclimenes (again, the genus), if they were I bet whoever described them was widely using names from the Greek mythology, and in this case I vote for the argonaut theory!

I'm sticking with the argonaut.

Maybe one of the crustacean experts that lurk here will see fit to chime in and enlighten us all.

I am finding this whole thread very amusing, fascinating, and educational.

Leslie, I am getting some training on Final Cut Pro at the Apple Store. When I was in the Philippines last dive trip I saw an interesting white worm with a medusa head on the end that was about 4" long and about a 1/4" in diameter moving quite well. I immediately thought of you and got some HiDef footage.

The theory about the Thor thing might be a clue to the Argonaut thing is an interesting hypothesis.

As soon as I figure out how to upload a short portion of the worm footage here, I will post it in your honor.

As soon as I figure out how to upload a short portion of the footage here, I will post it in your honor.

Thor & Periclimenes were described about 50 years apart by 2 different people.......

Hehehe, that's the way to go!

But I'm with William - a few extra syllables just make the names sound better!

And I thought I was alone in my stubborn mis-pronounciations.

The verb is pronounce, but the noun is pronUnciation.

So technically, you ARE quite consistent!

Hi Luiz, I am really keen to hear more about this book. I iive in Bali, Indonesia and it's a whole long process for me to try and get books, or anythign come to think of it sent over here so I'd like to know if this is the best book to go for me. Do you think it is really helpful to translate and learn more about the Latin translations or do you think there may be something else out there better?

Hey - I am starting to worry about posting now, all this talk about correct pronunciation and with Wetpixel postings not having a spell checker, oh no what am I gonna do

Hi Graham, this is the best book I've seen on the subject. It has a disctionary with hundreds of pages containing names and parts of names commonly used in species. It also explains the entire process of naming species.

Luiz

I think the Honeysuckle v Jason and the Argonauts camps are both fascinating. Visually, I really got kick out of Rocha's honeysuckle photo and the adjacent Imperator shrimp as the colors matched which visdually reinforces the position.

I was thinking about adding some variety to my HiDef DVD first attempt at editing, and do a little shindig where I discuss scientific name entymology....and use some of the discussions in this thread as an example. I can see how either Argonaut or honeysuckle can bothmake sense, but I think I would let viewers make their own conclusions and present both sides.

Regarding that, Rocha, your two photos, one of the honeysuckle and the other an imperator shrimp of all but identical color makes for an excellent visual in a DVD when narrating that portion of the honeysuckle hypothesis.

So my question is, considering it is a HiDef sorta thing, where can I get those specific photos in real high res large images so unlike small jpegs, I can blow them up and import the stills into Final Cut Pro before exporting to DVD Studio Pro?

You got me on that one... I just downloaded them from free websites, maybe if you contact the photographers? I will try to dig up the sites where I found them.

Oh, by the way, I just received my Inspiration rebreather, will start training soon...

Hey Luis - where are you going to do your Inspiration training? Hawaii?

Looking to do the same in the near future -

Bryce

Yep, doing it here in Oahu, I'm not sure if there is any instructor in Kona, and I think there is only one here in Oahu.

Cool Luiz - I actually didn't think there was one in Hawaii, period. There is definitely no one teaching full circut on the Big Island.

Good to know

Bryce

Luis,

Thanks for the offer to find the website where you found those photographs....I searched the net too, but couldn't find the ones you posted, which render the two colors identical, making the point better.... let me know when you find them and I will see if I can contact the photgraphers.....

You'll get a kick out of your Inspiration training......just remember amongst other things to never let the handsets dangle over any longer period of time-moisture travels down the hoses into teh handsets...it's a bad design.....I resolved it by upgrading to Vision electronics which are WAY better......plus I have a temp stick to monitor what the sorb bed is doing....I like the HUD too.

You'll enjoy your unit, it is really reliable and stable.....if you dont'; do tech/deco stuff, check out the Evolution though, much easier to move about underwater and with a scrubber monitor, guys are getting 5 hours on the scrubber no problem.

We ordered them with the vision electronics and I plan to dive it to 350ft...

Back to really important things, like archaic languages.... I was searching for the names of the 3000 sea nymphs to check how many were used for polychaetes (yeah, I know - too much free time and worms on the brain) and found an excellent web page with definitions of greek people, places & things put up by Michael Stewart http://messagenet.com/myths/ppt/index.html

Cheers, Leslie

PS - I'm sticking with Periclemenes the argonaut.

Making note to self: Leslie is firmly in the Periclemenes Argonaut camp......