buoyance arms review

Good stuff to think about, everyone.

I hadn't thought that I might be out of the demo for these arms, seeing as I'm shooting probably the lightest DSLR (read: lightest underwater) rig out there. The Ike rig isn't too tough to manage, and I will often toss it into the column to change my grip - as it sinks slowly.

To Cor's point - it depends on how / what you shoot. I shoot macro 70% to 85% of the time in SoCal. And here, I'm not trying to hover over sensitive and fragile coral for extended periods, holding a heavy Aluminum housing to get the shot. I can generally brace and rest on the rocks, sand, wreck or other structure.

Terry from ULCS sent me a PM that got me to thinking - even with the comparatively light Ike rig, its still a schlep (especially on the Scooter - where having a neg rig is a good thing.) What I was thinking as I was going through this is how the buoyancy of my rig is biasing my shots.

There are shots I'm conscientiously and doubtless sub-conscientiously passing on because a one handed Macro for me is usually not a great shot with my current rig. Even the size of the Ike rig I'm sure is biasing my shot selection.

This has been a good exercise for me to think about. Thanks everyone.

Ken

BTW, has anyone tried the stix float arms for ULCS arms?

http://www.4gdphoto.com/catalog/index.php?...;products_id=98

I'm tempted to give that a shot given my investment in arms already...

I used them for the first time in PNG and they did make things a bit easier on the rig. My Aquatica would be heavier so it was not neutral but definately less downward pull. The one thing that did make them harder to use was when I rotated the housing when shooting macro to vertical. The positioning of the arms made one side more bouyant. I had to play around with configuring them to ease this pull.

Todd

Thanks Todd for the feedback. I expected that problem going vertical but I'm kind of used to that already with my pool noodles.

Did you go with the medium size floats or the jumbo-sized ones?

I have an canon rebel xt with Ikelite housing 8" dome port and have an Ike ds125 strobe and am interested in the 4th generation arm but am not sure how much buoyancy I will need as I am just beginning this. Any suggestions on which to go with?? Thanks for the help!

I second this question......how should one go about calculating the buoyancy required? I am sold on the StiX system. I did consider UCLS's new larger buoyancy arms (2x2x8"s). However, unless I am mistaken, these arms are very much more lighter topside (better for traveling) and also provide more buoyancy underwater (especially if shorter arms are used).

Anyone here with a D200 or D300 Sea&Sea system that could give me some advice? I was thinking of a 6"arm to the housing and a 9"arm to the YS-110 Strobe. UCLS clamps. Is this a good length choice for someone shooting a 15-50 Sigma F2.8 Macro (with optical Dome Port) and also a 105mm VR Macro? What size floats should I be ordering? Just the standard size or the medium ones? I would rather my rig as close to neutral or slightly negative.

Thanks to anyone who can help...

I'm not using near the rigs you guys are but I recently purchased the medium floats from 4th Gen. I bought 2 kits which is a total of 8 floats. I placed 2 ea on my seven inch Inon arms and 1 ea on my five inch arms. I believe if you tried to place a 3rd float on a seven inch arm you would restrict the movement of the joint?? My set-up was slightly negative with 4 floats and consisted of the following:

Canon A 570 IS in a Canon housing

2x Inon grip DII

AD Mount

UFL 165 AD

4x Inon joints

2x seven inch Inon arms

2x Inon D2000 strobes

Very pleased with the floats. They fit firmly and stay in place. Good product.

Jeff

If you're unsure about what buoyancy you need, just email 4th gen and ask. He'll gladly help you out with any questions.

Cor

Hi there,

I'm just putting together my DSLR system. Got a Canon 40D, Canon 60mm and Tokina 10-17, but no housing yet (waiting to see the Nexus in March). I will be getting dual DS 125's. I'm sold on the Stix system, but what lengths to get? 2x 5" and 2x 8" seems the recommended for ULCS, but the Stix only comes in 4, 6, and 9". Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Phil

I emailed them with the same question....the reply was to use 2x SX206 (6") and 2x SX209 (9") arms. Will still be slightly negative...

I like their buoyancy collar - looks cool!

James

I like their buoyancy collar - looks cool!

 

James

I can't find this buoyancy collar. Anyone have a a link?

I can't find this buoyancy collar. Anyone have a a link?

http://www.4gdphoto.com/catalog/index.php?...8f5612c8fad4380

I had a chance to finally use the Stix medium floats that mount on existing ULCS arms for about a week of diving. My setup was a Canon 40D, S&S MDX-40D housing, compact macro port setup for a 60mm macro lens, Athena glass dome + 22 extension and Tokina 10-17, 2x Inon Z-240's. I placed 3 medium float sections on each of my 4 Inon M arms (8"). In some previous bath tub tests, the camera + 100mm macro, housing and respective compact macro port setup had a water weight of approx. 0.6kg. Each float section provides 3.5oz of buoyancy according to the 4thD webpage. So for each arm, that's 10.5oz (0.3kg) of buoyancy. I can't find weight specs for Inon arms but assuming they are roughly similiar to UCLS arms, ULCS says a 8"x8" setup with 3 clamps, base, and strobe adapter has an underwater weight of 10.5oz (0.3kg). Single Z-240 has a water weight of 2.6oz (0.08kg) w/ batteries.

So a rough estimate of u/w weight is...

Housing+ camera + port = -0.6kg

2xArms+clamps+adapter =-0.6kg

2x Inon Z-240's = -0.16kg

Total = -1.36kg

9 sections on Stix buoyancy floats for ULCS arms = +1.2kg

Which seem about right as with full arms, the total kit was just slightly on the neg side. Doesn't float as much as Cor's setup (mine sinks faster ).

I did do most of my macro dives with just single 8" arms+floats on each side plus a Fisheye LED48 focus light. Quite negative and as the floats are forward, had the tendency to make the housing nose up. After long 60+ min dives, my right wrist was getting pretty tired. I will go back to just using the full arms next time although you have to angle the arms backwards a bit to get the balance right on the rig.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the setup. The foam shows little compression from repetitive dives to 25+m. The Foam do have a little channel running through it to let water escape. Do dry them out thoroughly after a trip though. Found mine were still damp when I got home and had a nice aroma to them... A little wetsuit shampoo seems to have solved the stink...

Seriously, is the high quality pipe insulation you get in the HW store really inferior to the material that the Stix floats are made from? It seems to be a heavier-duty version of the pool noodle stuff and looks a lot like all the pix I've seen of the floats. I keep hearing that pool noodles will compress at depth, but I haven't heard a definitive answer on the pipe insulation. Can anyone comment on how that stuff performs at 60 ft. or deeper?

Seriously, is the high quality pipe insulation you get in the HW store really inferior to the material that the Stix floats are made from? It seems to be a heavier-duty version of the pool noodle stuff and looks a lot like all the pix I've seen of the floats. I keep hearing that pool noodles will compress at depth, but I haven't heard a definitive answer on the pipe insulation. Can anyone comment on how that stuff performs at 60 ft. or deeper?

In comparison with the pipe insulation I tried a long time ago, YES!!! Big Big difference.

I finally got to go diving with my Stix floats for ULCS arms. I have a G9 in an Ikelite housing, wide angle Inon lens, dual DS-125 strobes, 5" and 8" arms. I got my floats a while back but then got a raging ear infection so was unable to dive --- but that's another story entirely.

The floats fit the arms very well, they are securely positioned on the arm sections. The large float piece slips on over the ball joint and then the smaller "key" piece slides in and firmly locks the float in position. The foam is very dense and can be firmly grasped; I was afraid it would be soft and make the arms difficult to position, but in fact it is very solid. I only used three sections on each 8" arm section on this dive.

With six floats my rig was still negatively bouyant, but was much less so than without the float sections. Next dive I will add the final, fourth, piece to the 5" arms and see how that affects the system.

Seriously, is the high quality pipe insulation you get in the HW store really inferior to the material that the Stix floats are made from? It seems to be a heavier-duty version of the pool noodle stuff and looks a lot like all the pix I've seen of the floats. I keep hearing that pool noodles will compress at depth, but I haven't heard a definitive answer on the pipe insulation. Can anyone comment on how that stuff performs at 60 ft. or deeper?

I haven't tried the StiX floats yet, but they have to be better than pipe insulation from the hardware store. I tried that route on my last dive trip -- bought several grades and thickness of pipe insulation, cut them to fit my strobe arms (even angled the cuts so I could fold the arms) and toted them all with me to Indonesia. While I could see the pipe insulation giving a slight bit of a buoyancy boost during the first dive, I didn't really feel the difference that much. Over the course of the week, the insulation successively compressed flatter and flatter. Because I'm lazy, I left it on for the whole week, and at the end of the trip when I was packing everything to go home, I had a grand old time peeling the completely flat compressed insulation off the arms. It was about the same thickness as the material in my 1/2 mm wetsuit.

The pool noodles definitely perform better than pipe insulation, and the StiX are probably a grade or two hardier than the pool noodles. I'm looking forward to trying out the StiX, especially the buoyancy collar.

The stix floats, or really any kind of closed cell foam, are in a totally different league than insulation or pool noodle foam. Closed cell foam is made to be pressure resistant, with different grades being able to withstand different pressure. It is a relatively expensive material, made to be durable, light and strong all at once. It's used a lot in boating. Ive used some closed cell foams that I needed power tools for to cut. In my tests with the stix floats they maintained their shape quite well upto about 90 feet. Between 90 and 130 some floats will change shape but bounce back as you come up. Beyond 130 may rupture/damage the cells. This is not an exact science, so YMMV.

Insulation foam is usually not at all meant to be pressure resistant, but just meant to insulate. It's selected for that function, and does that well. Pool noodles are just toys. They have no pressure resistant capability at all. Any it has is mere coincidence and only works for very shallow areas if at all.

Cor

can you use these arms with the Ikelite 1 inch clamp and arms as well?