Underwater Etiquette

In a recent Scuba Diving article, Stephen F. suggested that an underwater scene belonged to the photographer until he was done shooting. While that sounds nice, I am sure that there must be some limits. On a recent trip to Lembeh, my wife and I were diving with a group from Turkey and these guys were unbelievable. You could see where they were from 100 feet away simply by looking for the cloud of dust where 3 of them were shooting, looking like Custer's last stand. They would literally shoot at least 50 pictures each of some scorpion fish or frog fish or whatever. After shooting for literally 10 to 12 minutes they would then turn around in a big cloud and swim off leaving the poor fish blinded by flash and the water too murky for anyone else to shoot or video the scene. On a previous trip we dove with a couple, both photographers and we worked out a deal, 3 pics each, then go to the back of the line for 3 more and so on until you got one you liked and moved on.

 

Given the relatively unlimited capacity now of digital cameras, where do you draw the line on how long to shoot a subject, particularly with a group that has 4 or 5 people trying to get something nice.

Thanks for bringing this up, and allowing me a chance to clarify. There are indeed limits, or should be anyway. Some animals can't stand repeated photographic intrusion, and photo-ops that are initiated by a guide who may be responsible for a small group of people is definitely different than a photo-op created by one's own personal eye and happenstance.

One of the considerations of print journalism is the limit on the number of words allowed in an article, but clearly this is an issue I should have thought through in terms of all the permutations of encounter. I still believe a photographer who finds a particular subject on his/her own should be allowed to properly cover the opportunity, without the distraction or interruption from another photographer trying to replicate the set-up. However, in a group scenario or a guided dive, common sense and polite behavior should trump finders-keepers. My 2 cents anyway.

Another example of a good question beginning a long and interesting thread....

Jams, I was thinking exactly those words just as I read down to your post!

My 2 cents:

Groups. Arrrgh! I really cannot 'do' diving in a group (with one exception, see later). In fact, being part of a group that was following a 'Noah' dive leader(you know, "stay right behind me, in a line, two by two") was how I got interested in u/water photography! It seemed to me that I was never going to be able to appreciate the wonderful life underwater if I was passing it all at Mach 3; but having a camera in your hands was a good justification for slowing down.......

So I got a camera - and then realised just what a nuisance I was becoming to the group by taking photos & thus 'lagging behind'...... plus no-one wanted to buddy up with me as I was going sooooo slow - and my ready acceptance of becoming a solo diver didn't suit the dive leaders either!

So I found the perfect solution - a private 'guide'. Not only did this allow the group & leader to dash ahead it allowed me time and space to take my pictures - and as an added bonus to have my very own tame 'dive model' too. Here's my last one:

As to the question 'do I think the shot belongs to me' the answer was:

NO - when I was in a group

but

YES - when I had my private guide, with the group long gone ahead of me!

Now, the one' no groups' exception I referred to earlier was photographic groups; whereby they all go along slowly, don't expect you to be glued at the hip with your buddy and generally respect each others space i.e. showing a great deal of u/water ettiquette! In addition, the ones I joined last year were all organised totally for photographers - with the delightful bonus of a professional photographer on hand to advise & assist (ring any bells, Alex )

HI Ralph,

I think I was on the same Red Sea Trip, It was more about respect for

each other & the underwater world. Yes it was a great trip with great people.

Looking forward to this years trip.

Andy

HI Ralph,

I think I was on the same Red Sea Trip, It was more about respect for

each other & the underwater world. Yes it was a great trip with great people.

Looking forward to this years trip.

Andy

The same trip t'was indeed, Andy! (m/v Typhoon)

And yes, looks like we'll be meeting up again this June too (Insh'allah).....

My experience: the better the photographer, the better the courtesy!

Diving Sipadan and Mabul in January I had the good fortune to meet an American working on a documentary project and a fantastic German couple, widely exhibited pros. They modelled for me and showed me their personal discoveries, I learned a lot.

The guides were great, too. We rotated through the guides' discoveries, and just waited for each other to take the time we wanted with our personal discoveries. I found watching someone else position themselves and bracket their compositions quite fascinating.

The only real problem was a videographer, making the customary resort video, who always seemed to be the other side of the shark or turtle from me: he's probably equally frustrated with me in his images...

... and I don't know who else was after the shrimpfish, but they were MINE!

Tim

B)

Yes, I know I'm bringing this thread back from the dead, but a lot of folks are getting ready to begin their dive season, so I thought it would be a good time to bring this back up.

Last year was my first year shooting underwater, and only my second diving.

I've been pretty lucky so far.On my two trips to Florida, all of the dives were unguided. I had to find a buddy for each dive, but I generally find a pair of divers to join, then they're not as concerned when I don't stay too close to them. On my trips to Roatan and Belize, the boat dives were all guided, but everybody I dove with was from my local shop, and there aren't many photographers.

I try very hard to share my subjects with others. I'll shoot a few frames of a subject, then look around to see if anybody else wants in. If the subject is something special, I will let the other divers around me know so that they can see, even if they're not photographers. If it's a subject that the guide found, I'll wait until everybody else has had their fill and moved on. Then I can take my time shooting and allow the subject to relax a little. I've missed some shots, but the subjects and I are more relaxed this way.

The important thing for me to remember is that diving is not a competitive sport. We're all there to have fun.

As a guide and someone who teaches underwater photography within the tourist industry I have found the idea of a photoguide invaluable. If I am guiding a group with photographers included I have found that generally the photographers are happy to poodle along at their own pace. I would still feel it was appropriate that the guide checks out the divers on their first dive or so to ensure safety and respect to the environment. I have found that guides that insist that people in their group follow two by two in an orderly fashion are simply not confident in their own abilities to assess whether someone can dive independently of the group. The guides inability to do their job properly should not dictate whether someone has an enjoyable experience or not. As for the centre operators that have endorsed this follow my leader style of guiding, I say to you, employ good instructors and guides. Encourage adequate site briefings and responsible practices and offer photo guides at reasonable rates to those who need them. Remember that your customers will return if they are treated well and enjoy their underwater experience. I hate being herded around like cattle.

My tip to photographers is simple. Show the guide and operator that you are a responsible diver, willing to take care of yourself, your buddy and the environment and they should be quite happy to let you do your own thing and move at your own pace. This is the secret of achieving the ideal shot and the perfect dive holiday. Or pay a little extra to an operation that uses photoguides and understands that we do not all need to be treated like cattle!

The important thing for me to remember is that diving is not a competitive sport. We're all there to have fun.

I am not saying I would do this with a subject found by a guide or on every subject otherwise, but I think it is time to stop believing there is something wrong with a photographer who locates a subject or image and wants cover it as completely as possible.

I don't see any difference between that and the topside photographer who climbs the hills and sets up his gear before me so they can shoot, whatever the subject may be, from the very best location at what they consider the optimum moment. I have never asked someone who beat me or lucked into a photo op like that to step aside and give me my turn, and I would never expect an uw-photographer to share his special find with me either. I might hope for that, but I wouldn't expect it and I certainly wouldn't think I was entitled because some sense of etiquette suggests I should be. It's his/hers to shoot or share or just enjoy watching and none is required of them just because I happen to be on the same boat or in the same ocean.

Oops....was I ranting?

Sorry....

What lionfish said is exactly my rule. However, like Martin (NW DIVER) said, I have not specifically approached divers on their activities, but I have informed divemasters and group leaders of poor behavior. I define poor behavior as something that really makes me mad and is an obvious selfserving, like wacking certain fish so they do a defensive display, etc. On my last trip to Roatan, my wife and I brought fending rods to use as our finger on the reef because they don't allow gloves there. Surprisingly, they hadn't seen them before and thought they were for prying up rocks and doing damage to whatever served our diving purpose. In Lembeh, they recommend these tools, in Roatan they frowned on them due to a lack of awareness and knowledge. By the end of the trip we felt like the most unwelcome couple at CCV while all the time the 12 inch poles were to limit our engagement with reef structure, corals and shoot more effectively from midwater while hovering in current. But as far as wide angle things go, I just shake my head when someone just swims through my frame because

1. They don't know better

2. They don't care

Number one is usually the issue, but in a wide angle environment, especially if you are shooting a fisheye, it's very hard for a diver to "go around" due to the len's coverage. So I don't necessarily think that the area "is mine", while macro is a different story. I.E,. Lionfish's comments. I don't believe in the scuba police theory but I do believe in the dive leads policing fair and practical behavior underwater. Discuss things with the guides if you see something way wrong and let them do their jobs.

Just my opinion.

Joe

This post is interesting to me in another way. Here in the islands south of Japan its quite often the spear fisherman who is competing against you for the reef. While there are alot of scuba tourists who do come here from China, Japan, Korea etc most of them tend to stay with the local guides in specific areas. Most of the best areas are largely unused by these groups, however the fishermen here seem to know these areas and its not uncommon to be dodging a fishing lure being reeled across the top of a reef.

Number one is usually the issue, but in a wide angle environment, especially if you are shooting a fisheye, it's very hard for a diver to "go around" due to the len's coverage.

Iggy,

Sometimes you'd have to be very lucky it's just bubbles they leave behind instead of finning up the silt bottom that would make you wanna throttle them once topside!

Wooo Hooo,

A potential bag of worms subject. I'll tackle this one in my head on approach. If I happen to piss anyone off here I'm sorry in advance but being in the water daily in Palau I get to see a lot of differing behaviors.

I guess there will always be two opinions to every situation. That of the photographer and that of the non photographer. For someone to be hovering on a reef enjoying an encounter with a Turtle or whatever can get pretty miffed when an image collecting, lets call them "snapper", diver hurtles out of no where in their attempt to get the perfect shot. No one person here can say they are completely aware of everyone and everything on the reef at any given time as they snap their shots or roll their video heads.

I guess the only way we can avoid as much negative confrontation, yes I've seen people attempt to fight underwater!, is for us as a group to asses each situation before we go in to take our shots. By saying asses the situation I mean take a look around and see if you will be about to swim in front of a dive group watching a manta at a cleaning station to get the shot. If you will be obstructing the groups view what do you do?? That in itself is the deciding point here. If you do happen onto a scene first then I can only hope that the divers turning up after you will see that you are in the midst of collecting your imagery. If they then choose to ruin your shots, again that shows their mindset on the issue.

I once had a "snapper" swim from behind me, over my shoulder whilst filming to get a shot of the manta I was in the process of shooting. Completely blocking my shot I grabbed his fin to make my displeasure known. His response? He shrugged it off. I found him and asked him topside why he acted that way seeing that I was shooting. "I wanted to get some shots" came the response. Go figure.

I have seen people, professional people, people we all hear about on a daily basis, people deemed to be at the apex of our profession, I have seen certain individuals in those ranks hold a complete disregard for other divers, the marine environment and the well being of their subject. Those individuals who walk over healthy hard coral plateaus dragging heavy filming gear and tripods, those who choose a comfortable 'seat in the reef' blocking the show at a shark feed to get their photos, those who sit on Manta cleaning stations waiting for the mantas to show, those people know who they are. For these people, and others deemed not so famous, to then take a stance as being all innocent and an advocate for non-intrusive diving practices in the search of photographic records is just a complete bag of crap.

We all want to get images. What separates one from the 'Coral Stomping Snappers' of the world is not one's ability to shoot a scene, its not one's ability to be the worlds best exponent at neutral buoyancy, what separates you from a 'Stomping' loud mouthed "I wanted to get the shot" jerk is the reverence that you offer to the marine environment. Its the respect you show your subject, its the knowing when you're bothering the wildlife and having the discipline to back off, there's always another day. Its also the way in which you interact with your fellow diver.

If you show respect, you in turn will be respected.

2c well spent!

Cheers,

Mark.