Pro beginner question

Hey guys,

Sorry if this topic has been breached before.

Here's the thing, I'm looking into getting into the pro side of video work and am looking to buy a decent setup that I can work with and will provide broadcast quality work. If money were no issue, I d go for one of the top HD + Gates setups, but unfortunately, I'm a dive instructor and don't make that kind of cash...yet. I've got a budget of about $5000, and want to get something that will grow wih me, and will allow me to make some cash. Now, should I focus on getting an HD camera, or are clips from regular DV's still sellable? Does this question make sense? What do all you pros, who make a living at this, suggest? Thanks ahead of time for any and all advice.

For the time being standard definition is pretty much all you can sell to scuba diving tourists, and shooting it in HDV and downconverting it is more complicated than shooting it direct in DV. So you have to make a judgement about how long you feel the SD market is going to last, and whether you're interested in HD stock footage or not.

Typical scenario I'm getting recently on the boat:

Customer: "Can't wait to see me with the manta ray back home in high definition on my new 42" LCD HDTV!"

Me: "Actually it won't be in high definition. But it will be widescreen and it will look great."

Customer: "But you're using an HDV camera."

Me: "Yes but I'm converting everything to standard definition because you've got no way to play high definition material yet."

Customer: "But I've got a shiny new 42" LCD HDTV"

Me: "Yes but your DVD player only plays standard definition DVDs. Unless you're telling me you're one of the first purchasers of a Bluray or HD-DVD player." (psst... he might have a player that can play HD DivX or WMV but let's not commit ourselves to 2 days' extra work while the rest of the boat gets SD)

Customer: "But... but...."

Me: "And even if you have one of those, I can't make you a Bluray or HD-DVD disc because affordable authoring software, media and burners have not arrived yet. I can't even author Bluray in Sony's own authoring software."

Customer: "So when will you start offering those?"

Me: "I guess some real demand will pick up in a year or so. Then I'll be charging a premium for the HD version as long as most customers are still ordering SD."

Customer: "So I can email you in 3 years' time and get a copy of this in high definition"

Me: "The best parts of it, yes. Sadly not the whole video as I don't have enough storage space for that"

Customer: "So why did you buy the HDV camera?"

Me: "Stock footage and hopefully the occasional commission for TV"

Hmm Nick, do you like talking to yourself often?

Actually output to 720P H264 is about 40mb per minute. And it looks bery gooood.

Hmm Nick, do you like talking to yourself often?

Drew, that's the main reason I delete the audio from my u/w clips. To get rid of the (mostly unbroadcastable) commentary from the videographer

i say same same as Nick but i try to talk to other people when doing so....

Question: when you say going pro etc, do you mean selling to tv etc or pro as in selling to guests?

If guests, then DV is A OK

But, with your budget, i would go HDV with the new HC7 or equivalent, that way you have all your stuff in HDV for future stock usage

Actually I do find myself talking to the fish quite often. Should I be worried? I had quite a chat with a whale shark the other day. It was a bit one-sided mind you. Maybe the boat boys have hooked a bong up to the compressor without telling us.

Unless I am missing something I don't see the benefit of staying/going SD. When I look at the cost of a new SD (only) camera and an associated housing, the cost is very similar to the HD camera and housing. Secondly, since you can shoot in SD with an HD camera you get the best of both worlds; if you feel converting HD to SD is too problematic, shoot SD. If you want HD archives, deal with conversion.

The one option I can think of would be buying the best used UW/SD setup you can buy. You might be able to find a 3-chip SD camera, housing, and maybe even a set of lights for 5K. This is a complete guess.

Ryan

The key to Reyrenoso's question is that he wants a system that he can grow with. While SD is still very viable, I just sold 76 seconds of SD footage this week, HD will provide the growth he is looking for whether he uses it now or archives it for later. Downconverting is just part of the package that he and everyone learns how to do.

My 2 cents-Steve B)

Thanks everyone for the answers so far. Nick, Mike and Steve mentioned stock fottage and selling to tv, which, in answer to Mike's question is what I meant by going Pro, should've been more specific. I'm looking for something that'll give me good stock and broadcast quality. Sopunds like I should HD, how much difference does it make if I go 1 chip vs 3 chip?

You guys make me laugh

It's ashame we all don't live in the same place, we would all be a great dive gang.

Go HDV, as not only will you have a better chance of selling material but's it's true 16.9. We are cutting up a Whale Shark training DVD and are using 4.3 shots with 16.9 and although we can get away with it for the DVD, might not for TV. We wished it was all shot in 16.9.

I still think the DVD's look better shot with HDV and even better if you encode them out progressive. Underwater it's all slow moving so you seem to be able to away with it.... 25 pics per second....

Thanks everyone for the answers so far. Nick, Mike and Steve mentioned stock fottage and selling to tv, which, in answer to Mike's question is what I meant by going Pro, should've been more specific. I'm looking for something that'll give me good stock and broadcast quality.

In that case you've got to go HD, no question. 11 months ago Dan from Oceanfootage.com told me "We are primarily looking for HD footage at this time, but we'll accept unique content on DV that we don't already have in our library." There is still a market for SD for TV and of course web/promo but it's dwindling and by not having HD your market is going to be shrinking by the day.

...how much difference does it make if I go 1 chip vs 3 chip?

In the DV world when it was all CCDs it made a huge difference but with the advent of CMOS chips it might not be quite so straightforward. Perhaps others can chip in on this subject (I'll get me coat...)

We are cutting up a Whale Shark training DVD...

Do you train them to tail walk?

How do you show it to them?

Following Nick to the coat rack....

Well it looks like I'm going to go HD. Thanks all. Now, HC-7, FX7, or A1U? I like the 3 of them, of course price points vary. Leaning towards the HC-7 because even with a housing I can stick to my $5000 budget, but a few people have mentioned the Fx7 and the A1U. What would you suggest?

He trains them to talk of course. So they can chew the fat with me. Apparently Hollywood is interested in a Crocodile Dundee-style movie about it, "Whale Shark Wags", with Paul Hogan returning in the starring role.

rereynoso, the problem is that there are no field results yet for the HC-7 or FX7. But gut reaction is to go for one of those 2 as the A1U getting long in the tooth now, is poor in low light, and has presented some (DeanB for one) with a lot of trouble.

The other 2 cameras probably aren't great in low light either. On paper the FX7 should be better than the HC-7, but HC-7 would be the cheaper option and it sounds like HC-7 housings are closer.

It's a training DVD on how to cut the fins off and make Shark Fin Soup...

No for the local operators to show their new virgin staff who have never done it before like MIKE

With that budget it's the HC7, try to get a housing that gives you control of the most things as you will start going manual once you get the hang of it.

Whale Shark Wags....now I like that....Drew can you write up a script for us...hey yeh that would be cool to make a Wetpixel adventure TV doco. With all of us here we have tons of footage already from all over the world.

I'll start a new post on it so we don't take over Mr Hopes post.

EDIT...Opps sorry about that.....Mr rereynoso

rereynoso's post actually. Poor guy must think he's arrived in the mad house. There's always scubaboard I guess.

I can see it now, Wags wrangling a 12-metre beast in the foreground, Kelly scootering back and forth in the background trailing an enormous EDIUS banner...

I'm very interested in your training DVD for whale sharks Wags. It took me forever before I got my whale shark potty trained, and even then, it leaves the seat up and my wife gets pissed off.

Steve B)

What is it with you guys...

My A1 is fantastic...Its just the monkey handed operator that needs to be looked at.

Leave the A1 alone..You will see the power of my weapon Soon enough.

Soon my precious...SOON.

Dive safe

DeanB

I think I arrived in the Mad house when I first started scuba diving! I'd be worried if you all weren't acting a bit mad! If I wanted sanity I guess I would hang out on scubaboard...but then I would also get an office job, take up golfing instead of diving, and start minding my P's and Q's! haha

Ok, So Fx1 or HC7, budget wise its obvious it should be the HC7, but...what about quality of image, and sellability of clips in regards to 1 vs 3 chips? Does it make that huge of a difference in selling the clips, is it that important, or am I getting too deep in to the research? I have a tendency to do that sometimes, since I hate buyer's remorse and feeling like I short changed myself. If I buy the HC7 is it going to affect my marketing ability, or is it not a huge issue at the moment? I know that composition, subject matter, lighting..etc...etc... all is more important, but is a buyer going to look at the stuff I shot on the HC7 and go "God, he's got same great stuff, we've never seen whales doing barbershop quartet, but I wish he had shot it with a 3 chip camera..."? Or, am I just ovethinking it again? I don't mind dropping large chunks of change to support my career choice (my girl, on the other hand, does!) but I want something that's going to be a good investment.

Thanks guys.

Mate, You could be filming with a Hi8 and capture a rare moment, like dolphins mugging a tigger shark, Whales riding uni-cycles, Mike Veitch buying a round of drinks, Wags whispering his hatred of Edius/Amphibico to a L&M rep or even Drew admitting he gets all his wisdom from a rash purchase of Encyclopedia's back in the 70's...And companies would by it.

Don't go to mad and don't put yourself in to much debt. Buy as much as you can afford then a bit more.

Dive safe

DeanB