NTSC to PAL conversion

Wags,

Have you output any of the PAL to NTSC converted footage? Does it stutter. If not, i may need you to convert some stuff for me;)

shawn

i use procoder to go NTSC to PAL and it works a charm.

SHould be better going the other way i would think

Shawn

Flicker is not a problem per se. Someone who is used to PAL will not notice the flicker. Someone like you, being in NTSC land, will notice the 20% fps rate loss. Just watch more TV when you're in a PAL country and live with it.

Here ya go Shawn...did that DVD show up?

It's was a PAL HDV clip in a DV timeline rendered straight out to a interlaced DVD spec file.

It's a good example of how the camera's shoots hot when left on auto as well.

Open them up in your DVD software.

The NTSC is not perfect but good enough for most.

PAL DVD File 8 meg

NTSC DVD File 8 meg

Interesting comment Drew. I watch lots of NTSC and PAL and never noticed any difference. However, when I see PAL stuff converted from NTSC in FCP, even with 3rd party specialist filters I see 'stutter' (rather than flicker). I have assumed this is due to some sort of averaging from the faster NTSC rate to the slower PAL, but haven't done a lot of conversions myself and haven't done many tests - especially recently. What I have seen tho has not impressed me. What is the best plug-in, in your opinion, that would convert? I know a lot of people swear by Graeme Natress' software, but people who have tried that have told me there is still some stutter....

I also use Procoder to go from PAL to NTSC, but Vegas gives an equally good result natively with no plugins (need to deinterlace using "blend fields"). I've also used TMPGEnc Xpres 4.0 which gives a sharper result but a little steppy.

Wags, the dvd did show up and i really enjoyed it...thanks so much! I couldn't get it to play in my dvd player so I watched it on my windows computer. Would love to figure out how to play on my big screen.

I could not download the files you posted...errored out. ProCoder sounds great! I don't see a Mac version however...so i may be stuck. I use Compressor and it does a decent job...but not great. Unfortunately i can't afford a Snell & Wilcox converter ($$$$$$), so i may be stuck.

Does anyone know of a super good software standards converter that is Mac Compatible?

Shawn can't you find a company that has a Snell & Wilcox and use them when you need them, and pass the bill on to your client if the job's not for yourself? I get the impression there are quite a lot of these machines in the US. Can probably give them a file on a hard drive or data DVD as well as tape.

I think the server gets bogged down sometimes.

Yes that DVD was Pal.....no problems on any computer though. Do know that all PAL players can play NTSC DVD's.

Mary sent me a NTSC tape with HDV and DV on it. Popped it into my PAL camera and feed it to the projector no problems.

Interesting comment Drew. I watch lots of NTSC and PAL and never noticed any difference. However, when I see PAL stuff converted from NTSC in FCP, even with 3rd party specialist filters I see 'stutter' (rather than flicker). I have assumed this is due to some sort of averaging from the faster NTSC rate to the slower PAL, but haven't done a lot of conversions myself and haven't done many tests - especially recently. What I have seen tho has not impressed me. What is the best plug-in, in your opinion, that would convert? I know a lot of people swear by Graeme Natress' software, but people who have tried that have told me there is still some stutter....

Nick, what I was referring to was conversion done by hardware, not software. Software NTSC-PAL conversion will always lose out on temporal resolution and also motion. Granted PAL - NTSC is a little easier because you are adding frames but it won't be good broadcast standard, just barely acceptable.

So hardware conversion is all that I consider for clips I'm selling for broadcast, and normally should be handled by the buyer, not the seller.

If you are trying to include your NTSC friends with your PAL DVD, then that conversion is easier as you are removing resolution (576-480) and adding frames. For mac, I've found Compressor to be good for PAL - NTSC conversions.

Funny thing is I shoot HD in 60i/30P/720/60P but use to shoot PAL in SD because of the extra resolution.

Drew

Yes I think for broadcast a hardware converter would be best.

At least HDV has the same res for both now...

So now I got HDV upper and DV PAL lower...what should I render out the DVD as?

I just did one lower and it looks okay even on the scrolling text..so maybe it does not really matter.

I so wish that PAL and NTSC went away with the advent of HD. We had our chance and blew it. One standard, one world...can't we all just get along>

I could not download the files you posted...errored out. ProCoder sounds great! I don't see a Mac version however...so i may be stuck.

Shawn, do not know if you have a MacIntel but Procoder runs on that (I use the ProCoder Light in Paralells, have not tried the full version, also run CinemaCraft the same way)

Does anyone know of a super good software standards converter that is Mac Compatible?

http://www.nattress.com (which I thought you tried?) is usually pretty good - if somehow you are not getting results you like you may want to drop an email to Graeme - he is a real nice guy and helpful

Is it true that PAL players will always play an NTSC dvd? Or just newer ones? Or??

Drew,

I am running MacIntel. How is ProCoder Light and what do I not get with this 'light' version?

I have trialed the Nattress converter and on first tests i thougth it was ok. But when running more playback tests, i found the HDV converted (60i to 50i) was very choppy. Adjusted all kinds of things and still same results. Best results came from Compressor. I wonder if Procoder is any better.

Anyone run head to head tests with Compressor and Procoder?

Also, anyone who may use Compressor and feels their results are good (for HDV NTSC to PAL), I would be interested in your setting choices.

In the end i fear that if i want broadcast quality, rented time on Scnell Wilcox may be required...anyone have one i can borrow:)

Shawn

Shawn

Here is a 33 megs NTSC m2t file I made straight out of the HDV PAL timeline with Procder Express.

I'm not sure what the light version of Prcoder does but there is version 3 out now.

PAL TO NTSV HDV CLIP

As far as I know all PAL DVD players will play NTSC ones, just the TV needs to be able to handle the signal as well. Most TV's are multi format nowdays.

Really appreciate that Wags. Downloading now and will let you know what i find. Apparently, Ntsc to Pal is more likely to result in choppy images b/c frames are cut. Pal to Ntsc is more likely to result in softening of the image. How have you don with Pal to Ntsc. very interested.

shawn

Ok...looks pretty good...better than I am getting. If the Ntsc to Pal is that good...count me in on pro-coder.

Shawn

I'll do a couple more on different shots for you...I think it may soften the image a tiny bit...but it plays smooth and if you send it back to a SONY HDV PAL camera it will kick into NTSC 60i mode and record it.

But yes that was straight out from the timeline in one easy go.

I have a NTSC tape from Mary as well and later on will suck some in and try going from NTSC to PAL m2t.

Awesome Wags! Please try HDV NTSC to HDV PAL. Compressor does a fine job with DV ...HDV is where it is struggling.

thanks

shawn