Dry Suits

I am about to make the plunge and buy a drysuit. I have been leaning toward a trilaminate but was advised by some of my dive team members from Van Couver that they preferred neopreme. Until recently, there was a huge cost difference but not the case any more. I have been looking at the White's trilam. Rodale's gave it a "tester's choice" and a "best buy" and it can be purchased with accessories for around $700. I'm not willing to break the bank on something I will not use that much unless I get to do a BC trip some day.

Does anybody have any thoughts on these issues?

I'd go with Trilam. I've got a Gates VSN1100 (or something like that) that I picked up last year, and it's awesome. It was a bit pricey, but worth it. I've never used a neoprene suit, but everyone I dive with in NJ has either a trilam or a rubber suit, no neoprene ones, based on durability. You might also take a look at Mobby's, they've got an interesting approach, which is an outer shell suit with an inner suit that are separate from each other. That way, the outer suit takes most of the abuse, and you can replace it as needed.

One interesting thing, if you've got any facial hair, or don't shave often (both apply to me), stay away from integrated dry hoods. I had one on my suit and ended up cutting it off because I could never get a really good seal, and the polar fleece lining would end up soaking wet, and my head would freeze. One guy I know has a significant beard and uses a dry hood, but wears a wetsuit hood underneath it, and is quite happy with it.

I dive trilam also. I don't know what it is about those BC folks that they love the neoprene. I have heard that from friends in BC also. I find it much more restrictive than the trilam. It loses it's insulative capacity at depth due to the compression of the neoprene.

Always been happy with my trilam and have many dives in BC. I dive the Bare drysuit. I have had it for about 8 years now. Just switching to latex wrist seals to accomodate some dry gloves I have bought. (Insert joke here.)

ps get the better underwear!! (Polartec)

JMHO

Yeah, don't go cheap on the underwear. The one thing about a trilam suit is that it provides virtually no insulation on its own. Nice thing about this is that you can use it in warmer water without overheating, using just normal clothes if you want. At the colder end of the spectrum, I've put on polarfleece underwear under my drysuit underwear and gotten into 36F water for 40 minutes and been *reasonably* warm. Wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis without dry gloves and a full face mask though.

Some manufacturers like Northern Diver here in the UK (on the web) have started some time ago to use Cordura outer trilaminate with titanium kneepads. These are extremely hard waring suits and unlike neoprene will withstand years of neglect in a (dry) outhouse. Squeeze can be a problems with these suits resulting in strange skin abrasions that you need to explain to the wife!!! Once you're used to adding air at the right moments this is not really an issue.

I have a northern diver compressed 4mm neoprene suit which I designed myself to incorporate argon with auto & manual pull dumps, though more expensive to buy and maintain the natural insulation renders thick wooly undergarments unnecessary. Normally a thinsulate garment is used. These type of suit are more 'made to measure' as the natural flexibility of the rubber caters for movement. A good fitting one is hardly noticeable in the water, but can be unbearable in sunny conditions.

In either case you should also consider a "Pee Zip" which is especially useful on a rib as you do not have to remove the top half of the suit!

So far no one's discussed crushed neoprene drysuits. I've been looking at the Diving Concepts Pinnacle 2 mil and their thinsulate undergarmet... The tri-lam suits dry faster out of the water and are much lighter. People say the crushed neoprene suits wear better - are more durable and hydro-dynamic. I'd like to hear from users of either.

A sea lion circus

Here in the UK drysuit diving is the norm and hence there is a big market for sales. I think the neoprene/membrane split is about 50/50 so there is no clear choice. I would advise to have a dive with both (any decent dive shop should offer this service) and decide for yourself.

I personally have dived with an 8mm uncompressed neoprence all of my dive life. I think its one of those things that once you use you never change, so its important to get it right before you invest mega bucks. To me the advantages of neoprene are the warmth and buoyancy of the material. I never have to wear anything more than a pair of jogging pants & sweatshirt. Obviously with a membrane or compressed neoprene you'll need the extra investment of an undersuit. In addition, I believe there is the safety factor. I once experienced, whilst teaching, both types of suits flooding at depth (on different dives). I know this should'nt & does'nt happen frequently but it COULD. The diver in the neoprene surfaced safely with no problems. Obviously the natural buoyancy of the material helped. The diver in the membrane had real difficulty getting to the surface, even with a full BCD. A story I always repeat to those persons deciding on neoprene/membrane.

Another factor would be the type of diving you would be doing. I used to carry out plenty of wreck dives with penetration & I know a membrane could not stand the rigours of this.

Having said that I know lots of divers who use membranes & would swear not to dive in anything else. The comfort and ease in donning is a lot let stressful in a membrane.

In my 20 years of diving experience, which includes teaching 2 types of diver education both at an amateur & professional level, together with owning a dive school & dive shop I can say that neoprene slightly tipped the balance in diver (punter) preference. However, students & punters can & do tend to look at piers as role models. Since all the instructors & DM's used neoprene many followed suit (no pun intended).

Conclusion - TRY BEFORE YOU BUY

Hope this helps

Mark

I personally have dived with an 8mm uncompressed neoprence all of my dive life ........  .......  I know a membrane could not stand the rigours of this

Now, based on diving your whole diving life in an uncompressed neoprene suit, how do you know that a membrane suit couldn't stand up to this? I know for a fact that they DO stand up to this type of diving, as that's pretty much all there is to do in NJ, unless you like sand.

Now, in the interest of not getting into a "mine is better than yours" discussion, I think the most important point you made is:

Since all the instructors & DM's used neoprene many followed suit

People tend to look to others they dive with to determine what they want to buy, especially with large purchases. I know that's what I did. I ended up asking a bunch of divers I really respect, and bought the type they recommended, and have been very happy with the result.

If you can scotty, try it first. If not, don't listen to Mark, he's not from around these parts...

Nother consideration is travel. A trilaminate dries MUCH quicker and packs much smaller than a crushed neoprene.

Regards,

Looking to peers (ie Divemasters and instructors) allows me to get my gear much cheaper. Companies know this that is why I can get gear at keyman pricing.

I too also agree with the drying and travelling ability of the Trilam. I must admit thou I agree with Mark in that you usually stick with what you start with. Funny how it works that way.

As for durability, apparently Mark is banging around on the bottom or top of the wreck!! A little bouyancy control will help eleviate this problem. (I am kidding Mark)

That's what I was afraid of, 50/50 split. Actually I think it skews a little toward the trilam, so far. Good information.

Unfortunately, drysuits are usually sold here by special order and not stocked by dive stores. Water temps go down into the 50's briefly and remain in the low 60's into June.

Now, based on diving your whole diving life in an uncompressed neoprene suit, how do you know that a membrane suit couldn't stand up to this?  I know for a fact that they DO stand up to this type of diving, as that's pretty much all there is to do in NJ, unless you like sand.

Tom,

Firstly I was NOT heading into a 'mine is better than yours debate'. I was purely giving the benefit of my own personal experience in the UK.

IMO from what I have experienced with divers who have dived with me on trips or through my old own school, the membranes came out second best. This is purely based upon the type of activity that was carried out which was 99% wreck diving at that time. I dare say that certain individuals like yourselves can prove otherwise with this type of suit. The opinion was based upon many years in a training/dive trip environment through my eyes. Respect it for that alone.

But heck what do I know, I'm not from around your parts.

Sorry Mark, I was kidding, if anything I was heading to a "mine is better than yours". I value most everyone's opinion and input, and certainly do respect the experience you have, however it was gained.

I'm on my 4th dry suit. I've owned one trilam, one 7 mm neoprene and 2 crushed neoprene. I definitely prefer the crushed neoprene. I own a pinnacle suit made here in Santa Barbara at the present and recommend them highly. Trilams nowadays are better than when I owned one. Much more conforming. In some cases hard to tell from a crushed neoprene suit. A quality, well fitting suit of any will do fine. With a trilam a catastrophic flood is potentially much more dangerous as the suits have no inherent buoyancy. Trilam users still seem to need more weight to compensate for the extra insulation they must wear. I use less weight with my dry suit than I do with a wet suit.

A few more comments/opinions from a couple of BC divers....

A neoprene suit will stretch with you (as you may grow after a few too many pints). They are easier to alter.

If you get water in your neoprene suit you have not lost all your thermal protection & will stay warmer than in a trilam.

We suggest a high-lift BCD (a good safety margin) since you will be using more weight with your dry suit...and if your trilam floods you'll need that extra lift...as markh already mentioned.

Go with a high density or compressed neoprene suit as they have more strength and will have less buoyancy problems than a standard neoprene suit.

Zipper flaps on either type of suit are a must as they cut down on the wear on the zipper. You can also choose a front zip and us it as a relief zip too.

Here in BC, we have over 5 local neoprene drysuit manufacturers. So its no wonder we have alot of divers using them. They have really addressed our coldwater diving issues. High wear finishes, better mobility design, fewer seams placed in low-stress areas make for more enjoyable dives in our 42ºF waters.

Gee, when our water gets to 60º we dive in t-shirts & shorts!!!!!

:ph34r:

"Zipper flaps on either type of suit are a must as they cut down on the wear on the zipper. You can also choose a front zip and us it as a relief zip too."

Really? My zipper must have been placed a little higher than yours. Maybe not.

42 degrees, now I know why I don't dive BC in the winter. 48 is plenty fine for summer fall temps.

Although I do ice dive so....

I have not heard of a trilam flood but, am quite sure it has and does happen. Are you saying in dumping weights and hammering a inflator you still have trouble ascending? I run with 45 lbs lift so I assume with that I may even be able to skip dumping the lead.

Todd,

I have personally witnessed a friend of mine diving with a typhoon membrane gash his suit on a wreck in the UK at 20m. Having ditched his weight belt & fully inflating his BCD he struggled to get to the surface. I had to physically help bring him to the surface.

In a separate incident I was diving with a DM on a dive in the 'pit' at Stoney Cove UK(35m). His dry suit wrist seals split and flooded his suit. In a state of panic he grabbed me whilst I attempted a controlled ascent. Weight belt dumped & BCD full he did not budge an inch. I had to inflate my BCD and drysuit to get him up from this depth. It was very frightening and our ascent was quick. Needless to say my computer was beeping like crazy. Fortunately all ended well.

If it can happen IT WILL.

Mark

We use drysuits 100% of the time here, and I feel I have to back up the gentleman who stated that the extraction of divers who have suffered a trilaminate flood, by themselves or others IS very difficult. I can remenber 1 instance it took 3 of us to effect such a job.

Due to the very nature of the 'Bag' being loose fitting it allows an enormous amount of water to enter the suit and more importantly the thicker wooly undersuit absorbs around 500-1000% of its dryweight of water. Making you one heavy SOB, even after the weightbelt is released, as there is no buoyancy left.

A standard BCD will not cope either especially at the surface.

I personally would not be seen dead in a standard trilaminate bag - Or maybe I would.

The new balistic materials now being used help prevent tares but still I'll stick with my compressed neo'

With the new underwear such as thinsulate you don't have as much air in your suit as the old woolies did. As I mentioned earlier I wear less weight than I would with a 7 mm wetsuit. I wear a compressed neoprene suit which I highly recommend. I use form fitting polyester pile underwear that I layer to the conditions. I have a front zipper but I still strongly like my convenience zipper. On any given dive boat trip I would say about 10 dry suit divers will tell me how envious they are of that zipper.

No problem getting back to the surface with my suit in case of a flood. (zipper snagged on something and was pulled open). Didn't have to ditch weights and I have a very low volume BC.

I would say the majority of central CA drysuit divers use a compressed or regular neoprene drysuit.