Dry Suits

I never dive near wrecks, but I am around rocks a lot, lobster diving, diving out of small inflatables, beach diving, just generally using my gear hard. A normal wetsuit lasts me around 3 years. I had a drysuit made out of normal neoprene, and it didn't last much longer, even though I was careful with it. It developed a lot of leaks, started having seam trouble, and generally got stiff and uncomfortable. Guess I'm hard on gear.

I'm getting very serious about another drysuit, gonna get one soon, i hope. I'm set on getting one from DUI, mostly because I am close to them and factory service will be easy, so I guess my first advice would be to get one from a local maker, or at least find out how easily it can be serviced.

Friends of mine bought DUI suits. DUI pretty commonly shows up at scuba shows and events. My friends went to their booth set on getting the crushed neoprene, since it's so bulletproof and they wanted a suit that lasts forever. The DUI folks talked them out of crushed neoprene and convinced them that for their kind of diving -non wreck - the trilam was plenty tough, very light for travel, and dried quickly. It can also be turned inside out for airing. My old neoprene suit really smelled. I built a rack for it out of PVC that would hold it upside down, with pipe run into the legs, with air forced into the feet, to try to dry it.

Anyway, I'm pretty set on a tri-lam dui, but that mostly confirms what other people have said - you buy what people around you have bought.

I am curious about one thing, though. I don't understand how a flooded tri-lam suit (or any suit, really) is heavier. Water is neutrally buoyant. A bucket of water underwater might be massive, might have inertia, might have drag, but heavy I don't get. It seems like you'd have trouble swimming, but that your BC would lift you (perhaps very slowly at first). Not trying to start an argument, just looking for clarification.

I think the idea of a flooded trilam being heavier is based on the older styles of insulation. Since trilam doesn't insulate on it's own, more insulation is needed, and in the past, that was typically woolen I believe. I use a polar fleece pile jumpsuit for most dives, and sometimes layer polypropylene long underwear under that if it's really cold (below 40F). I had a leaky dump valve (ok, it was operator error at the time), and my entire left sleeve was soaked, but the weight of the suit didn't increase much as polyester doesn't absorb water as much. I've not experienced a full flood personally, but in most cases when I'm wearing my dry suit, I'm also wearing an OMS backplate / wing setup with a HUGE amount of lift due to the other gear I'm carrying.

Another option that hasn't been raised yet is a vulvanised rubber suit, which Gates also offers. A few of the guys I dive with have these as well, and they put up with tons of abuse.

I don't really know what I was thinking when I asked that question last night. If your drysuit floods, you've lost all the air that was inside it, in your insulation, so yeah, that's heavier. With a neoprene suit, you've got less dry insulation inside (it's built into the suit) so in a flood, you've lost less air. D'oh.

By the way, though, one more reason I didn't like the neoprene suit and want the trilam: In the neoprene suit, if you don't have insulation in there with you, you get pretty damp and clammy from perspiration. In the summertime, I tried to wear tshirt & shorts under mine, and it got pretty swampy and smelly inside. If you do get one, IMHO you'll be more comfortable if you always wear long pants & longsleeve shirt, at least something light, and socks. It's good if the insulation is stretchy and comfortable, and if the suit is baggy enough to have room for it... and I've just described good polartec underwear and a baggy trilam suit, since neoprene suits aren't that baggy, usually, and perhaps too warm for polartec underneath.

Anyway, another reason I want the trilam is the full insulation, and so that I can turn it inside out and completely wash the jammies.

This has been a helpful discussion for me. I think what someone said about buying from a local manufacturer (able to service the suit over the years) makes a lot of sense.

For those who know - how do "Cordura" tri-lam suits hold up under lots of use - we dive a lot - compared with 2mil crushed neoprene? I can buy a Diving Concepts crushed suit with super heavy zippers and knee pads, and goodies like radar-reflective tape for less than their "Cordura Dura-Flex Tek" tri-lam suit. (The Cordura suit starts a litter cheaper, but comes standard with a lessor zipper and knee-pads. When you upgrade to the better zipper, and buy radar tape, the tri-lam suit costs more than the crushed suit.)

Since we'd dive the same under-garment with either suit, my guess is with the crushed suit we'd have more buoyancy to deal with, and need to dive with correspondingly more weight. As stated by others, I'd expect the extra lift could help in a catrostrophic flood situation. Either way, better to have plenty of lift availible from your BC.

On another hand, the tri-lam suit packs to/from the boat easier, is lighter, dries much quicker - and might be more comfortable in warmer water (most of our diving is between mid-sixties to mid-fourties - with avg. around 53.) But, I'm a little scary about those mid-80's days (top-side) when we want to do a shore dive...

What about in-feild repairs? Around here, a common suit injury is from sea-urchin spines. I've heard a tri-lam is easier to repair after a dive, because it dries quicker. My LDS said, "Neoprene cement takes much longer to dry, and the suit must also be dry." Do any of you feel there is a benefit of one over the other? I hear people talk about doing temporary feild repairs with duct tape...

I once had a hole poked in a crushed neophrene suit. Without waiting for it to dry I smeared a goob of aqualseal with the drying agent on it, waited a half an hour and dove the rest of the trip without problem. Later it was properly repaired with a patch and all. Neophrene suits have inherent bouyancy in them and if properly cut are tighter fitting than even the new strechy trilams. So if it floods you have some bouancy and less space for the water to fill up. It is true the new strechy trilams and tight polyester UW are much safer than the old ones.

Im on my 4th suit and have owned one of evrything Vulcanized, crushed neo, 5MMneo, and my current suit is a custom made cordura trilam from Otter in the UK.

I liked the crushed neo but the cost is high and not as durable as my current suit,are expensive to maintain and slow to dry. Drag used to be an issue with the trilams but if the suit fits you close it should not be a problem.

Uncompressed neo is useless. The change in bouyancy with depth is just as bad as a wetsuit. Since suit compression happens when you need the most insulation (at depth) you have to wear just as much underwear as any other suit which means you roast at the surface or during a deco hang. They are also heavy, hard to move in, and take a week to dry.

The dry time can be a big issue if you are flying to/from dive sites and a wet suit is going to add too much to your bag weight.

Uncompressed neo is useless. The change in bouyancy with depth is just as bad as a wetsuit. Since suit compression happens when you need the most insulation (at depth) you have to wear just as much underwear as any other suit which means you roast at the surface or during a deco hang. They are also heavy, hard to move in, and take a week to dry.

 

The dry time can be a big issue if you are flying to/from dive sites and a wet suit is going to add too much to your bag weight.

I have always dived in an uncompressed neo. They are NOT useless. They may be different in comparison with other suits but definitely not useless.

Its what you get used to and are happy with.

1. I have never dived with anything more than a sweatshirt underneath so one does NOT have to wear as much as any other suit.

2. Most compression happens between 0-10m where volume effectively halves/doubles and NOT at depth (check your training manual- under Boyles Law). I do not class 0-10m as "depth".

3. The change in bouyancy at depth. Something we all have to deal with diving suits. Try using your BCD or drysuit inflator. It works well for the rest of us.

4. They are heavy. Harder to move in? Thats arguable. Above water yes, UW possibly not, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt here.

5. Agreed on the drytime issue, but heck you just deal with it.

Now if my maths is correct thats 1 possibly 2 out of 5.

Please try harder.

Mark

Mark you are correct that the largest change in pressure is the first 33 feet. But, lets finish the sentence that there is still additional compression the deeper you go and therefore, greater compression of the neoprene.

I friend of mine that is commercially trained and technically trained has used all the suits and actually stated the very points that Nemo did last night. He did not say they are useless just the same disadvantages/inconviences. He actually now dives a DUI trilam. He regularly dives to 300ft.

Accepted. I did say MOST. Diving down to 300ft?? I'm not suprised he gets compressed. His Betty Swollox must disappear up his sphinctus at this depth.

Not sure on that...he does have one son.

I'd hate to see what happens when he dives deeper than 300ft which I know he has done. Let's clarify that he is trained to do this and, actually is an instructor for this type of diving.

Doing the math, at 132 ft, the uncompressed neoprene suit loses 80% of it's natural insulating properties due to compression. So that basically says that for most sport divers, noncompressed neoprene suits have one advantage over trilams in that they will provide some measure of insulation on their own, although the advantage gets smaller and smaller as you go deeper. This is indirect proportion to the issue of the suit's buoyancy characteristics changing over the course of the dive as depth changes. So basically what you have is a tradeoff here, you can choose an uncompressed neoprene suit for it's inherent insulation and deal with the change in buoyancy (which is really not a big deal), or you can choose a trilam and have to wear insulation most of the time (which is also no big deal), and not have to deal with the buoyancy change.

IMO, there is no overwhelming reason to choose one type over another at this point, because as with everything you buy, there are tradeoffs you make, pros and cons for each type. That's why there are different types, right?

I agree with you Tom. I think that is also what Mark is essentially saying too. You seem to stick with what you are used to, and people get used to different kinds of suits.

Abso friggin lutely Tom. As I said each to their own.