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For UW: Canon 30D/20D vs. Nikon D80

Started by Scorpius ·

  • 30Posts
  • 30Replies

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For UW: Canon 30D/20D vs. Nikon D80

30 posts
  1. :):):lol:

     

    Seriously guys...

     

    Back to the original purpose of the post.

     

    The 20D is a very good discontinued camera, but basically its a dead end if for some reason the camera breaks down.

     

    The 30D is a somewhat upgraded 20D and has the advantage of being still sold, so you don't end up with an orphan housing is the above scenario happen. Also choose your lenses with care as EF-S lenses wont cross over to the 5D or the other pro bodies. That is in the event that down the road you would want to "upgrade to a full frame camera"

     

    The 80D has some interesting lenses, and also TTL is somewhat less complicated with Nikon, Ikelite, Sea & Sea, Heinrich and even a housed SB-800 are all possibillities, not that TTL is impossible with Canon but the fact that Nikon only use 5 pins to achieve it mean you can use a standard Nikonos connector.

     

    You should choose between the 30D and the D80, again stressing that lenses kind of stick around for a while and camera body are more prone to the flavour of the month syndrome :P so care and wisdom in your lens selection will make a long term difference.

     

    Ergonomic do play a role in the picture taking process, if you have to juggle with your housing every time you wish to change aperture or speed, you are not concentrating on taking the picture. So yeah I feel that having independent easely accessible controls do make a hell of a difference.

     

    In french we have an expression " enculleur de mouche" that is used when thing get too deep into the mathematical scientific fringe. You will have a awesome camera and results beyond your expectation no matter what decision you make.

  2. Curious. Why not? Its very odd that MF and 35mm used the same film yet exhibited differences and yet digital doesn't!!! Odd too that cutting out a 35mm transparency from a medium format slide never had quite the same feel to it as an original 35mm slide. Odd too that the images from my Contax 645 produced substantially better scans tonally than those from my 35mm Nikons and yet apparently FF Canon produces an image identical to that from cropped formats. Its somewhat intriguing don't you think???

    I'm open to any technical explanation as to how a imaging technology, be it film or digital, can possibly know to perform differently depending on its surface area. I am not doubting your, or Paul's, observations but rather the explanation for them. There is no way that an identical film can produce different tonal variations based solely on how much of it is used. Other factors are in play, almost certainly the predominant one being the manner in which the results are viewed.

     

    I think that if you were to mount a lens on a FF body then a cropped body and examine the resulting file at 100% then they would (assuming the same sensor pixel size) appear prettywell identical.

    That is true and has been demonstrated. Knowing that fact, how can you argue that there are differences due to how many pixels exist? It cannot be true!

     

    In the real world different formats are used to capture similar image content by using different lenses and as a consequence the image 'quality' is different and this certainly includes tonality! This is true of FF and cropped sensors and the results ARE accordingly somewhat different.

    Yes to the first and no to the second. Different systems will produce different images for a number of reasons but one of them is not that the imager itself is performing differently because of its surface area. Regardless, film and digital are completely different in this respect and I've already explained why that is.

     

    ...and by so doing the tonality within them will show a 'different gradation' than those from a smaller format using a shorter lens to produce the 'same' image (or should I say an image with the same compositional content?). We could continue to engage in argument for ever but for me this topic has now ENDED!

    I can see that you believe this to be true but you cannot offer an explanation for why this should be true. I certainly wouldn't want to defend that position either!

     

    It is important to know what aspects of larger formats contribute to better IQ and what aspects do not. A larger sensor does not automatically mean that the performance of individual "pixels" is improved whether film or digital. The fact is that the D80/D200 is capable of maximizing the performance of a 12 bit ADC (see Fig. 5). What this means is that no other dSLR can outperform it in tonality unless an ADC offering more than 12 bits is used. Cameras such as the 5D can match it and sustain that level of performance through higher ISOs but they cannot beat it. This is why the 1D3 is getting a 14 bit ADC and why they specifically say it is done to improve tonality.

     

    Ergonomic do play a role in the picture taking process, if you have to juggle with your housing every time you wish to change aperture or speed, you are not concentrating on taking the picture. So yeah I feel that having independent easely accessible controls do make a hell of a difference.

    I agree with this but it's more a function of the housing than the body. I have, in the past, argued that the best system and body to use is the one that is supported by your preferred housing and ports. This is less an issue now with so many bodies being supported by so many quality manufacturers. Nevertheless, the D80 has two control dials just like the 20D/30D so I'm not sure what bearing this has.

  3. Prior to you guys hyjacking the thread :) there was some folks debating the value of the extra control wheel found on theses camera versus the 400D.

  4. "In french we have an expression " enculleur de mouche" that is used when thing get too deep into the mathematical scientific fringe. You will have a awesome camera and results beyond your expectation no matter what decision you make."

     

    Jean you are perfectly right! Much like many cars being capable of performance which is beyond most drivers actual NEEDS, most higher MPixel dSLRs are probably capable of better results than most people will ever NEED (including for publication). And technical specification should be viewed as only a part of the story, but generally it isn't. (Photo theory is a fascinating subject (or can be) but I remember someone posting a lovely little comment which I do try to keep well in mind which is "when theory and reality don't coincide, its rarely reality that's got it wrong"!).

     

    I can highly recommend the 20D personally, mine produces great image files!

  5. Jean (and others)

     

    I have used the rear control dial on Canon's 20D, 30D , and 5D. Just two weeks ago with a borrowed 20D in an Ikelite housing.

     

    Didn't seem a big advantage to me. Or maybe I'm used to holding the Av button, then turning the one control dial on a Rebel XT or XTi in manual mode.

     

    For those who claim they could bang off several shots varying f-stops with the rear dial, I would offer that setting auto-bracketing would do the same, faster without taking your hand off the trigger :)

     

    But hey, what do I know?

     

    dhaas

     

    post-244-1179335927_thumb.jpg

    Edited by dhaas
  6. The 30D is sort of an oddball as serge has said. For just a few dollars more you can get the 12.8 megapixel full frame Canon 5D.

     

    James, buddy "just a few dollars more"??? The 5D on Amazon.com costs roughly $1600 MORE than the 30D, that is more than TWICE the price of the 30D ($1039)! LOL

  7. JCharles,

     

    A "few dollars more" is a relative term here on Wetpixel.........

     

    There is a VERY wide spread of what folks think of being reasonable spending on this "hobby" :)

     

    LOL.......

     

    dhaas

     

    P.S. - What I always find interesting is how many PROS, with many making at least part of their living from shooting, use "older" technology for quite awhile. Like the Canon 20D or this post's 30D.....RAW and big files even from an 8.2 MP camera is evidently enough to make good pictures :)

    Edited by dhaas
  8. P.S. - What I always find intersting is ow many PROS, emanign the're making at least part of their living from shooting, use "older" technology for quite awhile. Like the Canon 20D or this post's 30D.....RAW and big files even from an 8.2 MP camera is evidently enough to make good pictures :)

     

    Heck, my 6.3MP EOS 10D is still good enough that I can't bring myself to shell out the dough to upgrade. A good picture trumps more megapixels any day of the week. Anyway, my problems always stem from the slow processor behind the camera, not the one inside it . . .

     

    Mike

     

    PS I like my two dials!

  9. Jcharles et al,

     

    Sadly, the camera only makes up a small percentage of the total price of an underwater photogtraphy kit :-( Spending double on the camera may only raise the total cost of the kit by 10%! If that yields a much greater than 10% improvement is ease of use, image quality, and longevity, then 10% more may "not be that much" :-) Since it's a full frame camera it means you may also not have to purchase a special "digital" wideangle lens, etc as well... Just some thoughts to consider - not a recommendation.

     

    Cheers

    James

  10. Jcharles et al,

     

    Sadly, the camera only makes up a small percentage of the total price of an underwater photogtraphy kit :-( Spending double on the camera may only raise the total cost of the kit by 10%! If that yields a much greater than 10% improvement is ease of use, image quality, and longevity, then 10% more may "not be that much" :-) Since it's a full frame camera it means you may also not have to purchase a special "digital" wideangle lens, etc as well... Just some thoughts to consider - not a recommendation.

     

    Cheers

    James

     

    Ah James but the recommendation was to get the CAMERA, no mention of lenses or kit pricing. ;-)

     

    It didn't sound to me like the person asking the original question was going be spending $16,000 on a kit. LOL

     

    Aloha!

    Charles

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