LiveView or viewfinder?

Hi everybody,

Will the LiveView feature in Nikon's new D300 make the optional viewfinders for housings obsolete? i.e.: is the resolution of the back lcd high enough for focussing?

Penny for your thoughts...

--Rob

Because LiveVeiw lets you zoom in on the picture before you take it, LCD resolution is not all that important. Yes, verifying focus is exactly what live view is designed for. If the LCD was so bad that even zoomed in you coudl not verify focus, then they sould not have even bothered.

Live view will be great for shooting a static subject from a tripod. First you compose the picture, then you zoom in to verify/fine tune focus.

BUT I'll bet that it will turn out to be next to useless underwater.

For two reasons.

If you zoom in to verify focus, you no longer have a way to assess framing. Unlike on a tripod with a static subject where you have all the time in the world to switch back from focus mode, to composition mode, underwater, both the camera and the subject are in constant motion.

Also, Live view does not "really" have autofocus. Yes the nikon version claims to have AF, but they admit that it is painfully slow.

The Olympus E-330 has live view auto focus which is quite fast compaired to a digicam and appeals to those making the switch from a digicam. The E-410 is not as fast in AF and more the speed of a high end digicam but has a much brighter optical view finder. Live view is a great tool for some situations but I don't think it is going to replace the optical view finder anytime soon. As far as being "useless underwater" I know of several people who swear by live view for U/W photography because it provides a 100% view and allows the housing to be held away from the divers body.

Phil Rudin

Don't forget the biggest disadvantage of live view: it goes through batteries like crazy! I bet you can go through a battery in a single dive if you use live view all the time, but when you use the viewfinder, the battery lasts for days.

As Phil says, "Live View" can work very well with practice because it shows 100% of the sensor area

Whether dSLR users will use it UW will be up to the individual photographer.

dhaas

P.S. - Missed that it has 100% coverage! Might be nice for certain applications....

As Phil says, "Live View" can work very well with pratice becuase it shows 100% of the sensor area

The D300's viewfinder also has 100% sensor coverage...

I think live view will be very useful. When I switched from PnS to dSLR, one feature I miss was the live view function. In some situations, it is handy to be able to see the view when the camera is at odd angle or arm length away such as taking macro picture of critters in a hole, shooting up at critter that is close to ground level etc. The ability to maneuver a camera without photographer's head attached to the viewfinder is quite useful sometimes. I don't think it will replace viewfinder but it will be a useful tool. Try taking a shot with the housing at ground level is a pain with dSLR. I don't do headstand very well both above and underwater

Don't forget the biggest disadvantage of live view: it goes through batteries like crazy! I bet you can go through a battery in a single dive if you use live view all the time, but when you use the viewfinder, the battery lasts for days.

You must be really good on air to stay underwater for days

I would disagree, I have the Olympus E-330, and only use Live view. I can do 4 , 60 mintues diving, 2 dives in the am and 2 dives in the pm, on the same battery. I bring 3 batteries down, and switch out the next day, while the other charges over night.

As for the Live view, I been shooting dig cams for the past several years, Olympus C-8080, C-5060, C5050, and always used the LCD for underwater use.

It is very simple to see the screen, see when you have focused, and all the nessary numbers, like your F/stops, ISO, etc, all the back of the LCD during the dives.

I swear by the Live view, and bought the E-330 just for that reason, and also I been use to the Oly family using them for the past several years.

I think it all comes down to personal preference, either way is ok, it's what ever you feel comfortable with

There has been an interesting post on DP review from a really talented nature photographer who has been playing around with macro using live view on the new Canon 40D. This looks like it might be a good thing for super macro uw photography. It think it would have worked for me when I was last in Sulawesi with my D60 and 100 mm macro trying to shoot pygmy seahorses. Since I could barely see the things and af would never work, it was a guess whether or not the guys would be in focus or even in the picture.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=24646807

You must be really good on air to stay underwater for days

 

I would disagree, I have the Olympus E-330, and only use Live view. I can do 4 , 60 mintues diving, 2 dives in the am and 2 dives in the pm, on the same battery. I bring 3 batteries down, and switch out the next day, while the other charges over night.

That's exactly what I am talking about, you open your housing and remove the camera to change batteries every day (even if you do only two dives, I wouldn't go out next day with half a charge). I can go for at least 5 days with my D2x; I only open the housing to download the photos, and I don't need to remove the camera to do that.

But I guess it doesn't matter if you don't mind removing the camera from the housing everyday and have enough batteries or a place to charge. The problem is that I made several trips to places where there is no electricity and I would need like 15 batteries if I used live view (one per day) instead of 3 for the D2x...

After playing with my 40D, I'd say ViewFinder 95% of the time. The AF function is rather primitive, and I cannot see it working underwater. I've had a play and think it might be possible to use LiveView + Centre Point AF underwater on the 40D, but in the end the viewfinder is what its all about.

Hi,

I switched from P'n'S to a Nikon D80 last winter and I had worries about the Viewfinder.

My solution was to get an INON Viewfinder, 45°. I am still very happywith that decision.

I have no problems to take pics of the PygmeSeahorses. I actually find it harder to se them in reality :-)

Well, I assume that it makes it much easier that I just have to slightly look up.

My Metamorhposis has gone so far that I do not see any need for a Liveview anymore.

/Erik

what housing do you have?

I am looking at an aquatica, but they don't have an OEM 45 degree viewfinder.

Hi!

I've used the Olympus E-330 with LiveView only for a while now (the UK-GERMANY housing doesn't feature an optical finder). It's great for some situations but in general, I'm the finder type. It helps me concentrate on the image. LiveView may be quite distracting (yet helpful, because you see what's going on around you).

I experienced problems with ambient light close to the surface. It's hard to read the LCD under those conditions. Bach to the black blanket (I've built one from bathsuit cloth with lead weight sewn along the edges).

LiveView is great if you are used to PnS cameras and may help in the transition to DSLR shooting. It's a different approach to photography, even in seeing and image composition.

All LiveView implementations besides the Olympus E-330 are a bit limited regarding AF and shutter lag. Actually, it's not exactly a shutter lag but you can't see the (moving) target while focusing.

I couldn't imagine working with zoomed-in manual focus without a tripod. That's a great studio feature but you seldomly have the chance to keep the camera that stable in UW use.

My next camera will be housed with an optical (45°) finder and optional LiveView. LiveView only was a compromize I don't want to use for much longer.

Helge ;-)=)

After playing with my 40D, I'd say ViewFinder 95% of the time. The AF function is rather primitive, and I cannot see it working underwater. I've had a play and think it might be possible to use LiveView + Centre Point AF underwater on the 40D, but in the end the viewfinder is what its all about.

Actually, I was playing around with the live view feature on my newly purchased 40D over the weekend and actually could see this working very well for certain macro shots where you have patient subjects, calm conditions, and lots of time... As long as you have manual focus control of your lens, the ability to zoom in 10x on live view will allow you to nail that focus, especially with that large 3" LCD display. Even handholding the camera in my lap with shutter speeds as slow as 1/40 (24-105mm IS lens @ 105mm/ IS on), I could use that live view to get some pretty sharp pics. AF in live view is a bit a crapshoot unless you can absolutely hold the camera still or are using a tripod u/w.

I could also see this coming handy even for WA shots with small apertures as then precise focus isn't as critical as composition...

Ultimately, its just another tool in the bag so to speak. Live view with a DSLR is an option. For skittish or fast moving subjects it would be a waste of time. However for macro and slow moving subjects it might be of help.

what housing do you have?

 

I am looking at an aquatica, but they don't have an OEM 45 degree viewfinder.

The Inon 45 Degree can be placed on Aquatica's by Backscatter (and maybe others) so it seems.

General Description Of Inon

Inon Selection For Housings

Nearly all of my wide angle shooting is prefocused, either on my hand or on my fin, and shot with my camera held at arms length or down on the bottom. I'm often checking that my composition was close AFTER the shot, and reshooting if I am off by a bit. I'm going to give live view a go in these situations, hoping that it reduces my reshooting a bit.

I don't expect I'll use it at all for macro. After playing with the 40d & Sig 150 extensively, I can't get a feel for critical focus as well as I can with my eyeball. I'm sure I could on a tripod w/ a macro slide (as the dpreview post above illustrates), but not hand held.

Having used live view for close to two years now on three diffrent Olympus camera models I would have to agree with Ryan. If you pre focus a fisheye or super-wide like my 7-14 zoom and then use live liew on a static or slow moving subject it works fine. In macro if is hard because you just can't hold the camera still enough for critical focus. If you zoom the image size to X5 or X10 say you lose your ability to compose accurately.

The Olympus E-330 works best because it will AF almost as fast as using the optical finder because of the second chip in the viewfinder which allows the camera to focus without the mirror being raised.

Phil Rudin

I haven't used Live u/w, but my expectation is that AF is major barrier. If you're pre focusing, that shouldn't be a problem and LiveView should work well.