How about a dive-photography license !!

Introduce a licensing scheme that requires photographers to demonstrate their "superior precision bouyancy control skills", fin technique, minimum impact holds etc.

Don't let divers dive in parks who do not hold the license

the problem of course ... who is the certifying agency (?) ... Padi will just create yet another scout badge with 'minimum' set of requirements and what we need is a maximum number of skills.

... cameras go the way of dive gloves ... ie. we don't use cameras & gloves here because of the damage it encourages on the reef !!!!!!!!!!

hmm

In that case i think we should set a minimum of 1 or 2,000 dives... Sound fair? Not really does it, but i have somewhere around 4,000 plus (ahem, 123 logged ) so it might sound fair to me.

The problem is when you push for rules it doesn't always go to plan. For example some Indonesian, Galapogan etc Environment minister picks it up, and 'makes it better' by saying you need x dives because it's easier to quantify, or better still, if you lot (photogs) cause so much damage how about we just ban cameras underwater unless you have a media permit.....

Hmmm. I have certainly seen photographers damage reefs, but I have seen non-photographers damage reefs. It isn't at all clear to me that photogs are any worse than others. In my experience it is usually the opposite. Maybe we should REQUIRE people to bring cameras with them while diving?

How about we not. Licensing is a nanny-state illiberal way of keeping others from doing something we are doing.

The issue isn't who gives out the license, it's who can take it away.

Introduce a licensing scheme that requires photographers to demonstrate their "superior precision bouyancy control skills", fin technique, minimum impact holds etc.

 

Don't let divers dive in parks who do not hold the license

 

the problem of course ... who is the certifying agency (?) ... Padi will just create yet another scout badge with 'minimum' set of requirements and what we need is a maximum number of skills.

 

... cameras go the way of dive gloves ... ie. we don't use cameras & gloves here because of the damage it encourages on the reef !!!!!!!!!!

 

hmm

How about everyone taking the GUE fundies course?

superior bouyancy control plus all of the other DIR prinicpals..

How about we not. Licensing is a nanny-state illiberal way of keeping others from doing something we are doing.

 

The issue isn't who gives out the license, it's who can take it away.

You got that right; hell the reason I dive is because I get away from all that BS.

Ban diving?

Good idea - ban diving. But only if reef damage occurs.

I'd love to see operators start cracking down on people who damage the reef - that'd solve the problem pretty quickly. Damage the reef/harass wildlife, lose diving privileges. While some operators might do so from a genuine desire to preserve the reef, they're all motivated by the bottom line. There needs to be an industry recognition that the reef is a scarce resource, and it hurts them more to have it damaged than to lose money from enforcing sound dive practices. That's already started, as more and more places ban gloves now, and lay down guidelines. Just need to keep that ball rolling, and support operators who make and enforce rules.

Kind of off-topic, but what the heck, as long as we're setting off stink-bombs: how about we actually teach people how to dive before certifying them? OW barely scratches the surface - raise the barrier to entry and actually make them good divers. Of course, that would mean instructors would actually have to be good divers first (my instructor wife loves when I say that).

Kind of off-topic, but what the heck, as long as we're setting off stink-bombs: how about we actually teach people how to dive before certifying them? .

I think people should have a minimum 3000 dives before they are allowed on tropical reefs... Sorry, but i am a mod here so i have the right to make the rules and sorry if you don't pass em, you don't get to have a camera underwater... :

I can't count how many people i have picked up off the reef over the years ( i get that right as a dive guide) and believe me there are tons, and yes i do it in a rude fashion to those who are doing it on purpose, or in a nice fashion to those who are new divers and just have no buoyancy control, i help them to understand the whole weighting issue. But have NO patience for experienced divers with no respect....

But.. the tone of a lot of these new threads is just a weeeeeeeeeee bit over the top even for me people.

Rules, commandments etc etc

It ain't going to happen as we do not live in a communist state, so lets let it rest ya?

Cheers

But.. the tone of a lot of these new threads is just a weeeeeeeeeee bit over the top even for me people.

Rules, commandments etc etc

My sentiments exactly.

I'm more than happy to follow that BSoUP Code of Conduct, but with all due respect, this is where you can stick all of your extreme and fundamentalistic rules, commandments, licences.....In another post it even reads "evangelize".... yuck

Funny how rules are "communist" and "illiberal" but royally scr**ing the environment is "freedom"...

Divers who care about the reef respect it. How can anyone police this?

In the end it's the guides who will make a difference: if guides spot trouble and keep it away from the reef, even making divers leave their cameras behind with their gloves then things can improve. If the guides don't care, who will?

I've been accused of damaging the reef (I've also been praised for respecting it... go figure); I felt awful, even though I didn't think I had actually touched the coral that was damaged. I reevaluated my whole approach, and (I hope) I've got (even) better.

I could be in trouble, though, as an amateur who lives 100 miles from the nearest sea and has only a thousand dives or so...

Tim

B)

hehe..

screwing the reef is not communist, its the idea of trying to police thousands upon thousands of people to follow rules is the idea i am getting across...

how can you do it?

listing a few rules on a message board or two?

What percentage of divers and photographers read em?

Its a nice idea and i too do my part, in fact i enjoy nothing more than pulling people off the reef.

But realistic implementation?

In the UK to work as a photographer or filmmaker underwater one needs the HSE Part IV commercial ticket. I think its also been called the Media Diver cert? correct me if I'm wrong any UK based shooters. Having that though doesn't mean anyone will demonstrate better dive techniques.

You do a skill set for Divemaster, AI and OWSI certs with PADI but does it mean that these divers continue to practice once trained? I think not. This would be the hardest thing in the World to implement and police. Its down to the individual. Period.

Cheers,

Mark.

Mark

Contentious though this comment may be, and although I hold an HSE Part IV and at times operate under the HSE regulations for TV work for example, I would have to say that in my experience the HSE Part IV is pretty meaningless and certainly has NOTHING whatsoever to do with good buoyancy skills. I think that the Media Certificate is slightly different in that it is more restrictive (in theory a full Part IV allows me to do commercial scuba work (not that I have any intention of doing so).

Many of the divers I dive with are scientific divers with full part IVs and are usually pretty superb on buoyancy and minimising impact. The commercial divers I've met and sometimes had as 'standby' have a different modus operandi, some even dislike fins and sometimes their impact is substantial to devastating (not all I hasten to add). So in answer to your comment, I'd agree that a specific qualification means very little and you are spot on about it being down to an individual as to how they dive.

It must have been great when Cousteau first started using his aqualung - NO rules and very little hassle (and no comms - a woderfully 'silent' world) - but even then (despite there being very few divers about) he noted damage to the marine environment .......

It must have been great when Cousteau first started using his aqualung - NO rules and very little hassle (and no comms - a wonderfully 'silent' world) - but even then (despite there being very few divers about) he noted damage to the marine environment .......

Cousteau? He was the guy who said,"Sometimes, for reasons of conservation, it is necessary to use dynamite." !!

Cousteau? He was the guy who said,"Sometimes, for reasons of conservation, it is necessary to use dynamite." !!

lol... so that's where that line from Life Aquatic came from in the start...

UW Fesitval Director: "That's an endangered species at most. What would be the scientific purpose of killing it?"

Steve Zissou: "Revenge" (in classic Bill Murray deadpan)

Steve Zissou: "I'm going to find it and I'm going to destroy it. I don't know how yet. Possibly with dynamite. "

But just think what hoops Cousteau* would have to jump through to use dynamite today! Rules, rules and more rules...... (*PS I said he noted existing damage - presumably BEFORE he caused more).

Hi pgk,

I was outlining the need for licensing to work in a media collection role in the UK. I dodn't imply that the HSE pt IV required a skill circuit per se. That came when I mentioned the requirements for skill displays for DM etc etc.

Sorry for any confusion.

Mark.

The Wetpixel community, its sponsors, and the relevant media could do a lot to promote good practices for divers/photographers. This would seem to make more sense than regulations that might be arbitrary and difficult to implement. How about including educational fliers or brochures with underwater photography and videography equipment? Maybe someone could make a short video on proper techniques, maybe something for the Divefilm Video Podcast site. Perhaps there could be a Wetpixel "certification" (non-regulatory and non-binding) for divemasters, shops, and tour leaders that demonstrate that they are committed to making their clients aware of the issues.

Last year I saw a diver/photographer sprawled out over a reef in Hawaii. She was resting on or parked on sloping coral while she looked for a shot. She had substantial, expensive equipment, suggesting that good photographs of the reef environment were important to her. I'm guessing she probably didn't realize what she was doing to the coral underneath her.

Respectful diving needs to be a part of the recreational culture. The concepts need to be out there and unavoidable at many stages of the sport, including initial training, equipment rental or purchase, travel planning, tour booking, etc.

Pat