Panny HVX200 - 60fps played back as 30?

Hey guys. I played around with a Panny HVX200 today. We had it set for 60fps, but also for 720/60p as base. After converting it to Quicktime, it shows up as a 60fps clip.

I want to slow it down to 30fps or 15fps playback, and Final Cut 6 is making it difficult. I just don't know how to do it. I realize now that I should have set the base to 24p or 30p and set framerate to 60p in camera (right?).

Any tips? If I just set the speed of the clip to 50% and set the sequence to 29.97 instead ot 59.94, it looks terrible. There has to be an easy way!

thanks in advance for any tips!

Eric

Maybe this plugin can help you.?

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/support/fcphd.asp

Thanks, Wags. I'll give it a try. There is already an option in the tools menu for DVCPro frame rate convert, but it does... nothing! I'll download the new plugin.

Eric,

That plugin is old! You have everything you need with FCS2.

For camera settings next time:

You have to first choose 720P 24/30P or 720P 24/30PN, then choose the frame rate for over/under crank. 24P looks better as you only have a 1/2 speed at 30P.

Import as 720P/24 or 30 then use the DVCpro Frame Rate Convert on the clip. Voila!

If you already have the clips at 60P and want to use it:

1. Use Motion 3 optical flow retiming. VERY IMPORTANT: Frame Blending MUST BE set to optical flow.

2. After Effects: Export from FCP as uncompressed (if your RAID supports the speed) and open then choose 23.98fps. Click Time Stretch to 200-250% (see which one you like more).

Drew -

So there's no way to just say... "play this back at 24p even though I recorded it at 60p?" I have to retime it using optical flow?

That seems stupid!

Hey Eric

Dare I say it...

This will edit the raw files no problems in real time.

http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSBroadcast/index.php

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=75123

Eric

Just to check with you. You tried the Panasonic Frame Rate converter and it didn't do anything? If I remember correctly In FCP 5, there was a bug that you had to export the clip you want converted to another project before you could get the FRC to work. I remember I've seen 60P converted to 23.98 using this converter. I can't test FCP6 since I have no .MXF files here.

I forgot Cinema Tools:

1. Import into Cinema Tools

2 Conform the clip to 23.98fps.

The easiest way is to use the DVCPro Frame Rate Converter. The other way is to import the 60P clip in a 24P sequence, time map the clip at 40% and disable frame blending(this is a subjective preference, try it either way). If you don't like that result, then try the other methods I mentioned. Frame blending MUST BE on for AE.

Also try Twixtor from Revision. Probably the best solution for easiness.

Wags

Edius does the same thing with DVCPRO HD as FCP does. It can take any 720P clip which used the VFR function on camera. However, when you have 60fps clips and want to view them at 23.98fps, the same applies. You still have to use the Frame Rate Converter.

FCP does DVCPro HD realtime as well and I think the P2 interface from FCP is more integrated than any other NLE (mainly because Panasonic worked with Apple for this purpose).

Drew -- do you have information about the P2 interface from FCP? A lot of the information on the web still says to use P2CMS to do an explicit convert to Quicktime / DVCPro HD before import.

By the way, here is a test using the Motion method you mentioned:

http://echeng.com/journal/2008/02/15/north...ion-wave-video/

Or, download a Quicktime directly: http://wetpixel.com/images/echeng/hawaii_w...4R_clip_24p.mov

Great shot but not smooth, I though it may be the flash encode but you can see it in the mov one too.

I don't really know, it's up to Professor DREW

Ka Cheng dude

Stop posting so fast... I didn't finish editing my last post before your next one!

AFAIK, FCP has P2 import as Panasonic P2(that was in FCP5, in FCP 6 it's now called Log and Transfer to cover other formats like XDCAM HD, AVCHD etc) under the File menu. FCP does convert the P2 MXF files into a QT DVCPRO HD wrapper on import. The stupid issue is that if you send it to a Windows machine, Windows QT doesn't have a DVCPROHD codec. Rather inconvenient.

However, you can use P2 files natively as well (although Apple doesn't 'officially' do so) The P2CMS is needed for native support as it installs a plugin that allows FCP to recognize P2 files natively. So instead of using the FCP P2 interface, you just import the files. Anyhow, the native codec has artifacting issues so using another codec is best anyhow. I imported and converted all my DVCPRO HD files as Uncompressed for color grading etc. So a lot of my info doesn't apply to many users.

In your .mov clip, why is it 4:3? I agree with Wags, the motion was not the smoothest.

One other thing that I use for Converting is Compressor itself, Compressor 3 has improved alot over the prior versions.

You can try making a copy of the Compressor preset in Advanced/Format conversions then set frame controls to on then use Better for rate conversion. It is slow, but has done a nice job when I have used it. It is strange but even though all of the apps use the same thing, such as the optical flow, sometimes one way gives a different result.

OK, here's another clip done with Cinema Tools conform to 23.97fps:

http://wetpixel.com/images/echeng/hawaii_w...LW_clip_500.mov

Better?

Drew - I'll check out the DVCPro plugin bug and try to get it to work.

Eric

You'll have to render both at the same size and codec to make a comparison. The Motion rendered one is cropped and in 4:3. You'll need to rerender both at the same size to make a fairer comparison. Then there is the issue of compression. What does Norb think?

The DVC Pro plugin bug is no longer an issue supposedly. However you do need to getting the settings right. Since you have 60P clips, uncheck "remove duplicate frames" and "pulldown".

It should then just slow the fps from 60 to 23.98.

Yeah, I did the comparison here. 2nd one was much better. I only uploaded compressed ones so you guys could see them. Maybe there was no point!

I can't get DVC Pro plug-in to do anything. I didn't install anything, but there was already one available in my FCP menu. I select it... and it does... nothing! yay!

Thanks for all the suggestions. One of these days, I will try them all and post a summary.

Ok now you got me into this...

So when it does nothing, you mean it doesn't create a new clip with the new fps? What settings have you tried? Any error messages?

I mean that it literally does nothing. I select it in the menu, it blinks a few times like all menu items do, and then... nothing! no popups, no disk activity, no cpu activity. Nothing.

Well I just tried a shot using my old MXF files at 60P using FCP Frame Rate Converter. Works fine and man it's nice! I think you either have a bad install or it's a leopard issue since I'm still on 10.4.11 and QT 7.3.1

The FRC works well on my MBP and desktop.

Eric

Also note that you HAVE to select the clip IN the file browser then go to tools to select FRC. I tried converting from the viewfinder and that doesn't work... even though the clip is already in the browser. So the file browser window has to be the active window for FRC to work.

If you are going to do a summary, remember not to forget conversion of 60i to 24P via Adobe Effects. It really is a viable alternative especially with the high resolution HDV image from the Canon 3 sensor cameras.

I don't have Adobe After Effects, so that won't be in the mix.

Yeah, I selected the clip in Flie Browser, selected the menu item. No effect. I gave up.

Perhaps a leopard issue or a bad install but I haven't received any bulletins regarding that. I'll check.

Just to be accurate:

OSX.5.2

Quicktime version:7.4.1

FCP 6.0.2

latest Pro Kit update 4.5