XDCAM EX format not accepted by BBC as HD

..I just got rather disturbing news that the XDCAM EX1 HD format of the camera is not accepted by the BBC as full HD,, because the bitrate is only 35Mbps,,,, and than any footage from that camera will have the same 15% non HD restraint as any HDV camera such as the Z1,,,, it seems the min bitrate requested must be at least 50Mbps!!

.. does any one have any more information on this??,,humm I guess I won’t be upgrading since it seems documentary people consider this camera the same as an HDV camera!!--must assume that National Geo, Discovery may feel the same way,,,these big boys seem to stick together!!

Comments anyone??

[edited by Moderator]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least... <_<

Who gave you this info..????

Although they are still accepting DVCAM....Weird bunch...

Dive safe

DeanB

I would image it depends on what you have shot. If you have amazing or unique footage then I am sure that they will accept it.

However I would expect them to be much more picky, should they be commissioning you to shoot from scratch.

Alex

It wouldn't surprise me in the least... <_<

 

Who gave you this info..????

 

Although they are still accepting DVCAM....Weird bunch...

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

Info. I got from someone involved in production at the BBC.

Reason, camcorder was refused for an upcoming production…

Your right Alex,

Its the difference from shooting 'never seen before' or an 'amazing sequence' on a good enough camera to trying to get a commission for a 'whole film' shot on that same camera...

I'm thinking of making a feature length programme and was considering the EX1 but I will have to find out if this cam is accepted....Or do I just go ahead and shoot it and if its got the wow factor hope they accept it... Its a pain in the arse... But buying a HDCAM like the 900R for £40,000 is a litttle out of my reach...

Another problem is the BBC has dissolved the 'WILD' strand of the NHU ...which used to make and comission the 10min and 30min programmes. With these you could possibly get away with the 'pro-sumer' cams. But they are sadly no more and they are only doing the 50min Natural World style progs now... Which are beyond the realms of the likes of me... For now

I will enquire and report back...

Dive safe

DeanB

Info. I got from someone involved in production at the BBC.

 

Reason, camcorder was refused for an upcoming production…

What sort of production was it... was it wildlife, doccy ?????

It did make me laugh as the Z1 featured highly in 'Planet Earth' and thats HDV... Although it was possibly the 15% they allow...

When we shot 'Dean the diving decorator'...the cameraman, Ian Salvage, used DVCAM as his 900R was to expensive for them to hire....Bring back the 10min progs !!!! home of new talent... Then they spend 6 million to keep bloody Anna Robinson's weakest link and ten times that bidding for bleeding football...It beggers belief.... Well to me

Dive safe

DeanB

Let's first define what they do and do not accept:

IF XDCAM EX is not accepted, it is not accepted as a main acquisition High Definition (HD) format, meaning that 85% of the show must be from accepted formats like HDCAM, 35mm film telecine etc.

This is different from Standard Definition (SD). We all know that many SD programs shot on DVCPRO50 and DVCAM are still being shown.

Funny enough, Discovery CA has accepted XDCAM HD as a main acquisition format, which is 35mbps but without the MP4 wrapper of the EX.

Discovery_HDSpec.logo.pdf

I've asked my Beeb buddy to confirm and am awaiting confirmation. So until then, if you are planning a doco, check with your producers and the broadcast companies on the format accepted.

I await with baited breath....

Dive safe

DeanB

So Discovery CA will accept EX1 stuff then ????

I'm not getting involved with this thread or I'm just going to end up sounding even more confused than Dean!!

Cheers, Simon

Dean

XDCAM HD is NOT the same from the PMW-EX1 as I've already noted. The EX1 records the HQ 35mbps in a MP4 wrapper. Many say it's close enough but no one has a white paper on the differences as of yet. I'm sure Alan at Beebs will have one done already

I heard you on that Drew... Just wanted you to say "yes it will all be o.k" then stroke my head...

Not that confused for once Simon... Just getting fed up...

Dive safe

DeanB

I hear you mate. Who knows what the BBC will and wont end up accepting - half the time they don't even know themselves.

Cheers, Simon

No, I think they are a fantastic bunch of people who know a good up and coming shooter when they see him or her... And they are seriously good looking...

Dive safe

DeanB

P.s Remember they browse these forums Simon...But don't let that sway your opinion...I will never bow or lower myself...

My feeling is that they wants to protect the owners of the HDCAMs from the cheaper solutions... The HD programs are broadcasted via 4-5mbps channels, so what is this blabla with the 35mbps? Not good enough... I am sure that footage from the RED won't be enough too...

Wasn't having a pop at the Beeb mate, but they are a BIG organisation and from my limited experience with them I got the distinct impression that most of the time they honestly didn't know what they could or couldn't use. If you're talking about the NHU specifically then of course that's probably entirely different, not least because of course they are all such good looking, incredibly intelligent and sexy people!!

Let's be honest though - aren't we just talking about the EX1 not being acceptable for top end productions on the scale of Blue Planet or Planet Earth? I've heard of at least two productions shooting right now for Nat Geographic where they are entirely using Z1's (even PD170's still). It's all just so confusing, but I don't think anyone could make a 'mistake' by buying an EX1 unless they were going to be shooting absolutely top end productions and then they'd be using the 'really' expensive cameras anyway, wouldn't they? My head hurts

Cheers, Simon

If you're talking about the NHU specifically then of course that's probably entirely different, not least because of course they are all such good looking, incredibly intelligent and sexy people!!

Errr lying like that would truly send you to hell (sorry Beeb producers, but seriously?!?)

Like I said, every genre can accept different formats. So check with them. Don't guess.

I agree with Jules, have you ever watched this aired HD TV stuff on a very large LCD ? It gets compressed heaps and even as a Blu_Ray as it's not 140mbps HD, it's like 20-40mbps.

HDCAM is king though but you know what! On a few occasions while watching the days underwater footage on a SONY HDCAM hi res field monitor, guess what I saw......compression banding

The other thing is having a HDCAM underwater is a pig, takes two people to put it in and out of the water and on many ocasions we had hired a diver just to help get the bloody thing down onto the wreck due to the strong currents. No problems with my small Phenom that also ended up getting many different angles due to it's smaller design.

My only concern with the EX1 is what it looks like on a panning shot. Drew have you seen any panning shots yet from it.

I'm sure if you went out and shot an amazing story on a EX the BBC would still be interested.

Well my next films going to so good everyone will be jumping hoops to except it and thats even if it was filmed on cheap toilet rolls...

So there...

Dive safe

DeanB

I noticed Drews discovery thingy was for Discovery HD... what about the normal channels.. Nat Geo wild, Nat Geo..Discovery channel.. Etc etc.. are they still accepting DVCAM..as we can always downvert...With 15% or 30% HD / XDCAM EX allowance...

QUestion and problem solved...I must admit watching some of these programs you can tell their using hand helds for most of it anyway..Especially the travelogue style shows... Maybe we should start on the smaller tv stations...

Dive safe

DeanB

Dean

I can only say this so many times... if you are planning a program, ask before you shoot. All the broadcasters will listen if you have a good program. They just want your post workflow to meet their standards, SD or HD.