Wetpixel signature self descriptions

Dear James and Eric, et al,

I agree that intentional copyright infringement should be considered unacceptable. And it is a practice I stick to to perhaps what some people would consider the extreme. I do not have a single piece of "shared" software on any my computer. I do not have any "shared" music or videos on my computers. I feel that if we want and expect other people to respect the copyright of the images we produce, we should also respect the copyrights of others - in all realms, not just photography.

Beyond the issue of copyright violations, I would also ask, "Should WetPixel members describe their accomplishments or credentials in highly exaggerated (sometimes beyond belief) or untrue ways?

As an example, I see a photographer who describes himself as the "world's most widely published underwater photographer". He writes a monthly column for a US dive magazine and has one large book of his pictures that I know of to his credit.

I am not sure by what definition he claims to be more "widely published" than David Doubilet who has over forty National Geographic full feature stories to his credit - each of which probably averaged 6-8 million English-language copies - plus in recent issues several dozen foreign language copies. In addition to NGS David also been widely published in many of the world's largest and most prestigious magazines in Europe and Asia. And has at three or four big hard-cover books, and other smaller books.

Or more widely published than Michael Aw.

If we want WetPixel to have credibility shouldn't we hold ourselves to at least a reasonable degree of honesty in describing ourselves and our accomplishments. Does simply being published anywhere make an underwater photographer "superb" or "renowned" or "fantastic". Isn't a simple description like "good" or "excellent" enough. And maybe more credible in an age when one person or product after another is described with words of extreme hyperbole.

I, personally, have been more widely published than many of the WetPixel members - including five stories in National Geographic and numerous publications spanning more than two decades in magazines of similar prestige in Europe and Asia. I am quite satisfied to just be spoken of or described as "an excellent underwater photographer" or "a widely published underwater photographer." And a person doesn't even have to be published to be really excellent. I have seen pictures by many photographers who are not even published that I think are really excellent.

So I, personally, would like to see a little more honesty and modesty in some of the personal descriptions.

What does anyone else think about this?

divegypsy

Hi Fred,

Good post and honest feedback.

To address your question: Wetpixel is a community and we let our members describe themselves as they see fit. As a community we are pretty good about "policing" our fellow netizens - either by calling attention to things that look false, or otherwise just ignoring folks altogether if we as users deem them full of "it."

Cheers

James

So I, personally, would like to see a little more honesty and modesty in some of the personal descriptions.

 

What does anyone else think about this?

 

divegypsy

I am not sure if it is a huge issue to me, I am usually more interested in what people write, how they help, what knowledge they possess and pass it along and even just knowing that there is also a chance for a laugh or a fun moment or two. At this point there are a bunch of people whose s/n I recognize and for the most part I do not know who they are in terms of experience or the rest, though of course being around long enough you pick those things up. I do not think most of the descriptions or the rest, at least to me, takes away from Wetpixel. I do not know if there is a real way to legislate things like that - even if someone says they are good, for instance, they will be others that say the person is not good.

FWIW, as an aside, though I understand your points, there were recent threads where people new to the boards mentioned being uncomfortable for a variety of reasons. Seeing someone mentioned with such detail is not be a good impression to convey to someone new to the board nor in general - it is a bit different than the sometimes heated back and forths that come up in discussions.

Along the same lines though I understand the point of your comment. that

, personally, have been more widely published than many of the WetPixel members - including five stories in National Geographic and numerous publications spanning more than two decades in magazines of similar prestige in Europe and Asia.

So, despite my couple of quibbles (and really do not take it the wrong way, was just providing some feedback) I like the general points you made. Not necessarily due to risks to Wetpixel's credibility but more to what it contributes. In a world of hyperbole people can easily get discouraged about themselves or intimidated (including when coming to an internet board.) They probably have not, and most likely will not, have a photograph published.

But as a wise National Geographic Photographer once said sometimes descriptions may be a bit of hyperbole and just as important said

I have seen pictures by many photographers who are not even published that I think are really excellent.

As an aside I have seen the mods take care of issues which could be problematic and as James said about the rest....

Divegypsy

Thanks for your post. I'm not sure who you are referring to (and I'm not asking you to challenge that person openly either as that would be flaming) but I suppose the criteria/details of this person's claim has to be clarified but since WP's rules on signatures is to limit to 4 lines, I doubt anyone can say I'm prettiest because my grandmother, mom, aunt and kids say so for every accomplishment. We have to give the person the benefit of the doubt in their claims.

Furthermore, I personally think it would be rather overzealous of the WP staff to ask for credentials for every claim any member makes. It is not why WP was established to do and really at 9700 members and growing, we don't have the time to enforce it either.

We are here to promote free exchange of information and a forum for like minded individuals to gather and break kilobits. Being it is the internet, there is an element of anonymity. The only way to establish a person's credibility is in their contributions to the forum first and foremost, be it to share knowledge or just an occasional photo or 2. I think you'd agree to that methodology no?

Regardless, if you have issues with a member's credentials, please feel free to report it to the staff via the contact menu on the page. The admin will then look into it and deal with it. However, we do not encourage openly challenging anyone's credentials as it never comes out well in public. Thanks again.

Some of us on this forum are amateur, and some are professional. Clearly, professional photographers have to market themselves, and I think it is quite acceptable to add some 'puffery' and self-promotion to a professional's website, and unless it is clearly dishonest, I frankly do not think it is our business to monitor this. Wetpixel is a forum of interested individuals, not a society or association where the members have to follow rules and regulations to belong.

On the other hand Wetpixel also tries to avoid commercial promotion in the forums, except in very specific areas, and those who use Wetpixel for this purpose should be asked to stick to these areas with any form of self-promotion. That should be fair, and keep everypne happy.

Thanks loftus.

Let me add that since I've been a mod, most of the industry people, and definitely the established ones, have been more than helpful with sharing their knowledge of their products without being overtly commercial. I think it'd be nice to appreciate how much we all benefit from their knowledge and kindness to take the time to post here. Sure we are their customers, but they could field questions privately instead of here.

I think honesty starts with us all using our real names. That said, it's good to see you back on form after your European car crash, DiveGipsy (or was that SeaGipsy?)!

I think this is much ado about little. Every dive op in Coz advertises as the #1 operator.

But, in keeping with the spirit of full disclosure, I've modified my signature for greater truthfulness.

edit: and of course I got it wrong "at the same time"

Am not sure that the signature matters a whole lot - I don't read them myself, I can't think many are taken in by any inflated content.

Those who do - do and those who don't pretty soon get seen through.

Personally I am continually amazed at the quality and depth of people up on this forum - and I don't think that it should be seen as particularly intimidating here. Some of the Unix forums I have seen are darn ugly!

If you go down the road of moderating signatures then you may end up with a completely moderated forum which is not where I would like to be.

Anyhow I have only one published article and my pictures are still mostly junk!

Paul C

"The Greatest Underwater Photographer who can whistle two notes at the same time, that I know of"

George, I think I'm going to have to have you verify this one... cos I can promote you for TV and shows... at the least on most amazing videos: boring edition

Scorpio_fish, I think you should link that to a youtube video with proof!

Cor

"The Greatest Underwater Photographer who can whistle two notes at the same time, that I know of"

You call that whistling, the closest I heard was you snoring through the cabin walls!

I don´t mind at all. I say let everyone call themself as they want.... superphotographer or the greatest photog ever, whatever...

Wow this is getting ugly.

"The Greatest Underwater Photographer who can whistle two notes at the same time, that I know of"

You call that whistling, the closest I heard was you snoring through the cabin walls!

Anyhow I have only one published article and my pictures are still mostly junk!

Paul C

Yes, but you've got a proper day job too!

"The Greatest Underwater Photographer who can whistle two notes at the same time, that I know of"

You call that whistling, the closest I heard was you snoring through the cabin walls!

Be glad, the whistling sound of two high pitched notes is not a pleasant on.

Since I've been challenged, I will forfeit my title and create a new one. One that cannot be challenged.

Interesting, when you change your signature, it rolls the change to all your previous posts.

OK, moderators. There are over a thousand members with signatures that can be changed hourly. Start auditing them now!

Be glad, the whistling sound of two high pitched notes is not a pleasant on.

 

Since I've been challenged, I will forfeit my title and create a new one. One that cannot be challenged.

I think El Guapo Del Photography is more subject to challenge than the whistle. May I suggest something along the lines of

"El Guapo Del Photography when compared to all others who can whistle two notes at the same time but where such notes can be misinterpreted as snoring, while on a liveaboard, if at least one of the people confusing the whistling with snoring goes by the name Loftus on Wetpixel."

Think you should be fairly safe with that.

"El Guapo del Photography"

I don't speak Spanish (sometimes) what's a Guapo - a guppy?

'The snoring whistling guppy photographer from Dallas' that should be pretty unique.

....What does anyone else think about this?

I apologize in advance if this seems insensitive, but since you asked, I think the question either implies a tremendous lack of a sense of humor or recognition of tongue-in-cheekiness, or is simply troll-baiting.

I guess that makes me a troll?

Seriously, I was taught long ago that if anyone toots their own horn, reserve judgment until proven. When other people toot someone's horn, maybe there's something to that. So I'd automatically assume anyone claiming "world's most ___" anything to be full of it, either in exaggeration, blind ignorant egotism, or for comedic intent. Does that really require policing for readers to understand?

I bet watching you watch presidential campaign advertisements is hilarious. (I confess to my own limited sense of humor at hyperbole there - my wife constantly has to remind me no matter how hard I yell at the TV, they neither hear nor care. )

"El Guapo del Photography"

I don't speak Spanish (sometimes) what's a Guapo - a guppy?

'The snoring whistling guppy photographer from Dallas' that should be pretty unique.

The Handsome Man of Photography