HD Web Video Formats Test

Trying to decide how to publish HD video on the web since Stage6 bit the dust so I've done a comparison test of HD web video formats at 960 x 540. I tried 5 options:

FLV in On2 Flix Pro

AVC in Sony AVC in Vegas

AVC in Main Concept in Vegas

Xvid in Xvid in VirtualDub

WMV in Vegas

I've used 2Mbps to try and show some differences between the codecs, but 2.5Mbps would generally give a better result.

Download them and please let me know your comments and which ones you like best.

At this stage I've only done 1-pass encodes. I may do some 2-pass but that Flix Pro is so slow.

I'd say the WMV and Xvid are on par with a cursory check, with a close 2nd in FLV which kills a little shadow detail. Main Concept kill detail by crushing blacks and Sony can't handle highlight detail as well.

So you mean you like the WMV better than the AVC versions?

For highlight handling, yes. Look at the lack of detail on the harlequin shrimp carapace, especially the fine detail. AVC versions lack detail at all levels. But I should really look it over more carefully.

Again cursory wise... the Xvid is sharpest without losing too much detail.

Well, I kinda like the Xvid too and noticed more detail. But how to embed in a web page? Such a shame Stage6 closed.

Edit: Since found out that the DivX Web Player can still be used even though Stage6 is dead and there is a sample here.

Hey Nick - I like the wmv file the best on my screen. Interesting topic - not my forte - but great video nonetheless. I really enjoyed watching it.

Great job!

Aloha,

Bryce

Great footage there Nick.

When I did some tests a while back H.264 came out tops.

Better than Divx and Xvid.

AVC? what encoder can I download to try myself?

The trouble is that you really want something that will play back in real time or people will just click away. 1500kbps is about as high as you can go for most folks on normal broadband over here.

Great footage there Nick.

When I did some tests a while back H.264 came out tops.

Better than Divx and Xvid.

AVC? what encoder can I download to try myself?

AVC == H.264 == MPEG 4 part 10, all the same. Perhaps there was some difference in encoding parameters.

Linda

AVC? what encoder can I download to try myself?

Sony Vegas Pro It even has 2 alternative codecs: Sony AVC and Main Concept AVC/AAC. The Sony codec is lightning fast. Seriously though Wags, H.264 and AVC are the same thing (I think) so what did you use last time Wags? Hasn't Edius/Procoder got a codec in it?

Anyway last night I tried a 2-pass FLV encode but doing the deinterlacing and resizing in Vegas rather than Flix Pro. This got the time down to a slightly more acceptable 8:50. It's number 6 on my page.

Still torn about which route to go though. Sony AVC is so quick and easy, and I don't mind viewers having to update their Flash player sooner than they might have. But this flv may have the edge in quality and is more compatible. The Xvid version works great in the DivX web player but the installed user base is so small and people may be wary of it.

The trouble is that you really want something that will play back in real time or people will just click away. 1500kbps is about as high as you can go for most folks on normal broadband over here.

Agreed. These will either be on separate pages or very clearly marked as HD/Big/Slow in the same Flash player as my lower res versions.

AVC is the same as H.264...OKAY no problems then.

To encode out a 30 second 960/540 2mbps H.264 clip from a 1440/1080 timeline takes me 50 seconds. All 4 cores of the CPU get to 88%.

To the same size wmv takes 60 seconds. CPU at only 56%.

To the same size FLV with the Flix Exporter takes 95 seconds, CPU at only 37%.

And how do they look?

Nick, DivX and AVCHD are both accepted in many DVD players. It's not that small an installer base. Just link to the downloads.

However, obviously WMV is the biggest since it comes with Windows.

Well it's between flv and H.264 for me...pretty close actually?

All made from the timeline.

WMV is bad.

7.64megs each in size.

http://www.hdvundersea.com/help/flv.flv

http://www.hdvundersea.com/help/H.264.mov

http://www.hdvundersea.com/help/wmv.wmv

Nick, DivX and AVCHD are both accepted in many DVD players. It's not that small an installer base. Just link to the downloads.

However, obviously WMV is the biggest since it comes with Windows.

Drew, I meant the DivX Web Player which the vast majority of users would have to download and install when they hit the page. My understanding is that FLV has a wider installed base in browsers than WMV, but of course not yet the version required to play AVC/H.264.

Wags, I still can't download complete files from your site. They stop part-complete with no error message. And the part-complete FLV gave me a BSOD

Wags

I sorta lost you. Why is the wmv file bad? Just from the first frame onwards you can see it maintains fine details on the whaleshark much better than the H.264. The fine detail retained from movement is also better. At 0.03 seconds both the flv and wmv files show the fish swimming over the shark's snout clearer than the H.264. The problem with H.264 is the encoding for motion has to be tweaked to work well. It is a black art in itself. It requires higher bandwidth and more work.

Color obviously has to be adjusted for wmv. but that's minor.

Well, i think i'm going On2 flix pro 2-pass flv with a bit more bitrate. Coding some javascript 960x540 popups for them now Now i just need some serious bandwidth

Drew my main concern with wmv is it's softness. Maybe you cannot see it too much in that clip but in others I have done you certainly can. Anyhow FLASH is the way to go for 100% computability and it's not too bad either.

I suppose it can vary as well as to what video card is driving ones screen. If I play a clip on two identical LCD screens driven by two different 128 meg ports you can see that what looks great on one is not as good on the other.

Nick I don't know why you cannot download those clips. They are on the same serer as my video site.

Nick last night I was adding effects and encoding out stuff from Raw m2t files on the timeline....I thought something was wrong with my computer as certain heavy filters and stuff took much longer to render/encode. I then realized it was because m2t MPEG is very hard to work with so I converted some to the intermediate HD codec and things were much much faster. I may have to dump all the m2t files I have captured for archive and start again I think. I see like a 1T SATA drive is like only $270...space is cheap.

I've now added a 2-pass CBR WMV version to the page and updated the 1-pass CBR version with a lower bitrate to match the other tests (I had some confusion between bits and bytes in the encoder settings). Also added screen shots of all the Vegas settings.

Nick you have been busy....

I played them side by side with VLC player and basically there is not much in them all.

I would just stick to FLASH as then you know everyone can play them.

Keep them to 1500kbps so they near on play in real time for most.

People don't want to mess around downloading clips, they want them to play.

Funny I just got an email from some guy wanting some stuff to play in China on some TV screens or something.

Must of came across my site.

Thanks Wags.

OK, I've now totally rewritten the page, condensed the number of contenders down to four options, and re-encoded them all with audio.

We now have: On2 VP6 2-pass FLV, Sony AVC, WMV9 2-pass, Xvid 1-pass, all at 2000 kbps CBR with 128 kbps audio.

I have now included Javascript popup links so that they all open in (the same) popup window.

Hopefully this now makes a good usability/compatibility/playability test as well as a good quality comparison.

Looking at these 4 options, for me the Xvid is the clear winner in both quality and playability. It has the best detail and best player. But for sure it's the least compatible as most viewers will not already have the DivX Web Player and will need to download and install it.

FLV is OK but the player has no buffering intelligence. I can only set it with a buffer in seconds, not percentage. It's the most compatible though (98.3% penetration in mature markets by December 2007).

AVC has too much contrast for my liking. This time it insists on buffering 100% of the file before playing.

WMV makes the vis look bad.

Please let me know your experiences. Thanks!

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