HD Web Video Formats Test

If you are worried about popularity, the WMV and Flash are about the same to me. I don't see what you mean by bad viz with WMV. But they are so close for your purposes that flash would be the choice anyhow.

Drew, I thought the WMV muddiness showed up particularly in the swirling trevalies at 0:10.

I'm not sure any of you would be willing to help.

I have read all this with great interest as I have a new HD AVCHD camcorder and intend to use Final Cut Express and On2 on a Mac to get the best possible, reasonably sized FLV for my website. I must be doing something wrong.

-I record in highest quality 1080i

-Import into FCE and have tried exporting in various formats. exporting 1 min of video is taking about 30 mins on a MBP 2.3 GHz with 3 GB Ram.

-Then I use On2 VP6-S and use the settings I read about in this thread. Taking another 30-40 mins.

It looks like crap, especially considering over one hour per minute of video.

I am brand new at this, so I have to be doing something pretty stupid. If someone could just fire off a few tips, I could probably play around and figure out the rest. Is my workflow even correct? 8 hours and 7 lousy i minute clips is pretty frustrating.

Hi Konkid

I'm on a PC but that seems way to long to make a flv file.

Can you make them straight from the timeline?

Maybe encode out a 960/540 aspect ratio 1, single pass Quick Time file @ 3 mbps CBR single pass

Put that into the encoder and set it at 480/270 (no constraints) @ 600kbps CBR single pass.

That should give you a nice flv for your site.

Good luck

Thanks for the reply.

I'm trying for full screen HD compressed in the way that On2 has done on their site with VP6-S.

I should probably approach this one problem at a time. And the first problem I run across is it takes me almost 30 mins to Log and Transfer (import) 1 min of AVCHD into Final Cut Express. On the web, I read that someone with my same computer, same software, does it in 1.3x real time. Not 30x, like I am.

It takes another 30 mins to export and convert it to a .mov. It looks great, but when I then feed it into On2, it takes 3 hrs to make a 960x540 swf. All this for 1 min of video. And it doesn't look good.

I'm trying all kinds of settings but with these times involved I can only try a handful a day. I've tried converting to 720p .mov, 1080i .mov, .avi, 30fps, 60fps, before On2 conversion.

I can't find any answers on the web, and On2 won't return my calls or emails. I'm lost, and I don't even know where to go for an answer.

mmm. I just did what I suggested on the last post all in a matter of a minutes from my NLE.

Full screen you need 960/540 or 1280/720 @ 1500kbps flv would be best for internet playback.

On2 comes with a heap of players as we that you can use.

AVCHD would be hard to edit on your system, it needs to be converted to another codec for ease of editing. Maybe thats why it's taking so long to import.

The one I did here I encoded it out to a QT H.264 file then to the encoder.

Maybe try mpeg 4 as well, not mov or even encode it out as a mpeg 2 file and try that in the encoder.

How long is the clip you are trying to encode out?

Wags,

Thanks for taking the time to throw some suggestions this way. i have been wasting so much of my time watching progress bars that I am hopefully getting to the point that I can almost understand what you are saying.

I'll try a few of your suggestions.

I guess my biggest question at this point is --- It seems as if I need to convert this AVCHD to AIC before I can do anything. Then I can export that as my .mov, mpeg 4, or QT H.264. I have no idea how long it should take from camera to finished export for a 1 minute clip. But it takes more than 10x real time.

I thought I would save a step and feed the AIC into On2. It works, but 1 1/2 minute takes 1 hour. (From 1080i-60 to 960 x540 flv)

I'll keep playing. I'm beginning to think I bought the wrong camera. It's not so much the AVCHD format, but the CMOS Canon HF-10 seems to have a lot more motion blur than I would like. I'm taking video of botanical gardens and rain forest with a lot of detail, and even a slow pan blurs all the leaves and flowers.

Oh well, your site here has helped a lot, so I'll keep at it.

I'll keep playing. I'm beginning to think I bought the wrong camera. It's not so much the AVCHD format, but the CMOS Canon HF-10 seems to have a lot more motion blur than I would like. I'm taking video of botanical gardens and rain forest with a lot of detail, and even a slow pan blurs all the leaves and flowers.

No, it IS the AVCHD format. Nothing to do with CMOS vs CCD. $10k cameras have a hard time keeping that kind of subject sharp on pans. What's your shutter speed set at? There's a reason you see a lot of Varicams and F900s in nature videography.

Konakid

As Perrone has mentioned, it is the codec that falters in motion artifacting and panning. HDV also softens up with you pan. In this age of quickpans and shakey cam reality tv, it's not that big a deal. For natural history, it is. If your panning creates a soft image, pan even slower, like a minute for 180 °. Then you can accelerate the clip to meet your cut.

As for your long render times, it would help if you give us detailed settings for your sequences and camera. It's easy to spew what you're doing wrong but without good detailed info, it's impossible to be certain.

You guys are greatly appreciated. You don't know how long I have searched for worthwhile information on this new "hobby" of mine. It is a steep learning curve, but I am willing. And info such as you guys are willing to share is very sparse and inconsistent.

I am so "all over the map" right now with encoding and camera settings that I need to get some coherent information together in order to ask a coherent question. I will work on that today.

I have recently tried using a tripod, and using shutter priority with speeds of 125 and 250 to address the motion blur while panning. However, trying to do a very slow pan without a few hiccups is impossible, and each hiccup causes the blur.

Last night (per suggestions), I also tried exporting to MPEG 4 and QT H.264 before feeding a clip to On2 but it wouldn't accept the formats. I must have done something wrong.

Until I get some more useful data for some specific technical questions, let me ask these:

1) Is my dream of having a small HD camera to film a walk through a botanical garden, and have any detail in the plants, unrealistic? I am using the Canon HF-10 with the good wide angle lens and all quality settings on high, with OIS off, instant focus off, and shutter priority when permitted at 125.

2) Should my basic strategy be to record 1080-60i and export to as high as quality as possible before feeding to the On2 VP6-S compressor? Or should I down convert to a 540p with reduced bit rates, frame rates, etc. first? If I feed the unaltered 1080i Apple Intermediate Codec to On2, it takes about 30-40x to encode.

Thanks again guys,

You will be sick of me soon.

Konakid

If you are going to ask questions on post please use this thread. However, any questions on camera work should be in the Video Gear forum. This will help other members find this information. Thanks.