FX7 or V1 for the Endeavor

Hi all. My first post here although I have been a lurker for many years.

Just about to make my first HD purchase and now serious enough about my video to go 3 chip. Almost all my filming is done in caves or deep wrecks so low light is a real issue Also compact design and robust build for dragging through caves. Finally a lot is done at sub 100m (I know Amphibico is rated to 100m).

My fairly extensive research has led me to the Endeavor housing and the 94 degree port (I'll have to be careful with that glass!). It suits my budget and to the Phenom is a bit big for what I want to do with it.

I am just still struggling with the question of FX7 vs V1. Now that the FX7 has been out for a while, how are users finding it?

Does the wider wide angle of the V1 lens make any practical difference UW? Does the bigger zoom of the FX7 offer any advantage?

Does the 4lux capability of these cameras vs 3lux of Z1 mean much for what I want? Is CMOS a disadvantage for low light filming?

I noticed a friend's HC7 camera do horrible things when he panned from the dark cave wall up to the silhouette of a diver against the sky...red pixels flitting all around the edges of the diver! Is that less likely with the 3 chip manually controlled HD cameras?

Lots of questions I know, but I have tried to be a good boy and search all the archives i promise!

Doc, welcome to WP.

I've done 2 reviews on the V1 in a Gates and Endeavor. Check out the reviews for more details.

As for camera choice, it depends on where you are. The FX7 has been discontinued in North America (but is still available somewhere). The optical specs of the V1 and FX7 are the same, 20x 37.4-748mm F1.6-2.8 Zeiss. Only the output is different in that the V1 outputs 1080 24/25/30P (depending on your region). There are also 3 slow motion settings to the FX7's 1. Obviously the control settings are more detailed in the V1.

The V1 is about a stop slower than the Z1 but has higher resolution in P scan mode.

The phenomena you are relating is probably the result of aberration on the lens, which could be caused by the optics of the housing rather than the camera. Anytime you have huge change in lighting conditions, the camera will take awhile to adjust. The V1 can be adjusted to respond faster.

I suggest you read the reviews first then come back with a better idea of what you want to ask.

Thanks for the advice on the dodgy video Drew.

Apologies, I misread the focal lengths...you are correct, they are identical.

I have read your excellent reviews on the V1 in detail already. Perhaps it is because of the lack of FX7's in North America but I am struggling to find comparable info for the FX7. The FX7 is still readily available in the stores here and in fact is being pushed in preference to the V1 from where I sit.

Would it be fair to say that comparing the 2 cameras:

- The V1 has obviously superior audio features (which will be irrelevant to me if I only use it UW)

- The 3 CMOS chips are identical in both so resolution, light sensitivity and colour rendition will be same?

- The increased number of camera settings on the V1 perhaps is the main advantage, and with those features a better final result can be produced if the user is expert enough?

Does the V1 also have the touch screen LCD to control functions (not my preference).

Overall I am getting the idea that the V1 although more costly, is more likely to be a camera that can grow with my skills and knowledge, and has no downsides compared with the FX7 apart from cost.

Appreciate the help,

Just to chuck something else in the mix have you thought about the Canon XHa1, it is better than the V1 in low light. Pretty much on pa with the Z1, it's smaller than the z1, cheaper and has great optics...

I have been using the Canon for the last 5 months and have been super pleased with it's performance.

My 5c worth

Jon

Does the V1 also have the touch screen LCD to control functions (not my preference).

No, the V1 does not use LCD touch screen to change functions. I have the V1 and have been using it for just a few months, but I very much like the camera. As for the FX7, I can't comment, but hopefully ronscuba will chime in- he uses an FX7 and does a great job with it.

We're here in Hong Kong at the moment and there's FX7's everywhere in the shops. There are no shortages of FX7's or V1's for that matter.

I previously owned a TRV950 and have really enjoyed the "upgrade" to my V1.

shep

I've been using a V1 since December in a variety of conditions and depths. So far I've been extremely impressed. The reason I went for a V1 over a FX7 was XLR inputs for topside shooting and DVCAM output when required. There are a few more differences, but those were the main reasons for me at least. Either way the FX7 or V1 is a nice cam. The reason I went for V1 over Canon XHA1 was the size of the housing. The Sony cam I get get through in a pelicase at under 23kg which is very important for me when traveling, while the Canon was quite a bit bigger and heavier (the gates housing at least).

I've just come back from a trip where I took it down to 40m in good vis and was able to MWB off the surface at those depths (although I did have a few other issues but that was with the housing rather than the cam and I'll post those elsewhere rather than clogging up this thread! ).

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Simon

- The V1 has obviously superior audio features (which will be irrelevant to me if I only use it UW)

- The 3 CMOS chips are identical in both so resolution, light sensitivity and colour rendition will be same?

- The increased number of camera settings on the V1 perhaps is the main advantage, and with those features a better final result can be produced if the user is expert enough?

Hi Harry,

I have a FX7E in an Endeavour housing (I'm based in the UK). You are right about the audio features - no advantage at all U/W. Frankly the hydrophone on the Endeavour is almost too sensitive and picks up lots of unwanted background noises including the shutter operation on my buddy/wife's D200 Thank goodness for the little gismo in Edius that allows you a momentary mute

Frankly being an enthusiastic amateur I have more than enough settings to tweak, and I am getting some good footage and so far no real problem in low light. I was filming in the caves/canyons at Fury Shoals, Egypt two weeks ago, and the camera performed well with detail in the darker areas as well as clear blue and shafts of light coming through the openings. I must admit that I only dive in blue water so I have no experience in the dark waters of the English Channel!

There are no LCD touch controls, and the Endeavour gives instant MWB and immediate switch to auto if you wish. Also manual button access to all the menu options.

One annoyance is the zoom. The basic zoom on the Endeavour is nice and slow, but for framing you can use the left "shift" button for fast zoom. However it is just a little too fast and easy to overshoot wasting time going back and possibly missing that shot

One advantage of the FX7 is being 50i, in bright conditions, you can up the shutter speed quite a bit without any disturbance on playback. This gets round the lack of a ND filter control on the Endeavour. I think Drew mentioned this in his report.

Like everything the final decision is based on what you really need and what you can afford - lets hope they match

Cheers

Roger

Finally a lot is done at sub 100m (I know Amphibico is rated to 100m).

BTW did you really mean you dive a lot sub (below) 100m you might not have enough battery time for all those deco stops

Harry

The price difference gives you higher resolution 1080p and more controls over the image. As others have said, size is a big factor for many nowadays, with baggage limits at 50lbs/23kg for many airlines. Big was better, but for the size, the V1 is an excellent performer.

Harry

The price difference gives you higher resolution 1080p and more controls over the image. As others have said, size is a big factor for many nowadays, with baggage limits at 50lbs/23kg for many airlines. Big was better, but for the size, the V1 is an excellent performer.

Drew makes an excellent point. I have the V1 when I actually was thinking about the FX1- the decision for me was made by the airlines. The luggage rule changes going on the in the US at the moment are incremental, just like they have been for us down in Australia and Asia.

I just flew with Virgin Atlantic to Hong Kong. They weighed our carry- on, 6 kilo limit and we were allowed only 20 kilos per person- here's the "ripper"-

Every kilo over 20 kilos is $20US A KILO!!!! That's a one way charge so a return trip is $40 a kilo- and that adds up fast. So this isn't a luggage cost thread so much as part of the decision making process for a camera/ housing also needs to include size and weight limits- and not just what they are now, but what they will be in the near future. The free ride in the US on carriers is about to end and get worse than you might imagine.

Qantas, BA, and 99% of all other Asian carriers, including Singapore Air are going to these high over- limit rates- the US will follow within a short time.....

Our last trip to Indonesia, even with going "lighter" cost us in excess luggage fees of $400, each way, for luggage- BTW, that was Singapore Airlines- it's at their discretion and it seems to vary from agent to agent and just how booked up the flight is.

You should be happy with the V1!

Really appreciate all the good advice and thoughts here.

Size is a factor for me in the caves (don't want anything wider than me to squeeze through the gaps!), and to some degree on the airlines. By the time I get the rebreather and other gear on the plane I am already paying through the nose Our last expedition to NZ we shipped 800kg of gear before we even arrived, but you always like the camera gear in the carry-on.

Yes quite a lot of dives below 100m. Water is often dirty on the deco so all the filming done on way down. Get sick of videoing the rock in front of you for 5 hours anyway!

In freshwater water i am either in clear sunlight or in the dark with the lights on so I don't think the orange filter is much use to me. Can I put an ND filter in the flip arm?

Are any of the cameras PAL/NTSC switchable...if so gives me some more options for eBay USA!

Can I put an ND filter in the flip arm?

Hi Harry - Great website - as another diving doc I really appreciate all the work you guys do in the chambers.

I see no reason why you shouldn't fit an ND filter on the flip arm if you are sure you will not need the CC filter, it is 68mm. You will need to remove it from its ring and it should clip into the arm.

Roger

Hi Harry - Great website - as another diving doc I really appreciate all the work you guys do in the chambers.

 

I see no reason why you shouldn't fit an ND filter on the flip arm if you are sure you will not need the CC filter, it is 68mm. You will need to remove it from its ring and it should clip into the arm.

 

Roger

Roger,

The FX7 and V1 have ND filters built in.

But as I understand it the ND filter switch cannot be accessed through the housing,

Harry ,

Roger was suggesting that you could physically replace the Ur Pro Filter that is mounted in the flip arm with a ND filter.

A good solution would be to have a ND filter mounted in a spare flip arm and swap them as a complete assembly ( 1 screw ) as the need arose.

There is always the option of using Gates FX7 / V1 housing - this would let you keep the Ur/Pro mounted in the flip filter and have access to the Cameras built in ND switch .

Peter

Harry, if you are shooting in cave environments mostly, you will probably not need ND filters unless you are using major lights like 200W HMI or 250W+ halogens on stuff that is close, even in 1080/24P. I've explained all the settings in the review.

Roger, anytime you use high shutter speed to control exposure you will run video strobing issues, especially when you start hitting 1/2000+. 50i is still 25fps. With high shutter speed you lose motion blur, great for slomo but not for normal viewing.

It has been mentioned that vignetting with the V1 and the 94 degree port is an issue, as the port was really made for the Phenom. Anyone got experience with this?

It has been mentioned that vignetting with the V1 and the 94 degree port is an issue, as the port was really made for the Phenom. Anyone got experience with this?

The vignetting issue you mention was with the original series Phenom Z1/FX1.

Amphibico changed the port slightly and removed the second internal flip filter which seemed to solve this problem

I also have to add that the V1 has a smaller FOV than the FX1/Z1 so there is no Vignetting with the 94 degree port on.

Having said that I'm off next week on yet another TV Doco with my Phenom.

The FX7 and V1 have ND filters built in.

Yep, built in, but the Endeavour doesn't have a control for it.

Drew, I wasn't expecting to go that fast with the shutter speed. So far even in the shallows of the Red Sea I haven't needed to exceed 1/200, and I haven't seen any strobing effect.

BTW I haven't had any vignetting either with the 94 degree port, and I have used it at all extremes of zoom.

Peter, I have a spare flip arm for my dioptre, as you say with one screw it is fairly easy to swap, but I do carry a long screw driver otherwise I cannot see what I am doing :-) Harry said he wouldn't need the CC filter so one arm would save a few pound/dollars.

Roger