Subal 105vr Port/lens Not Attaching To Subal ND30

Hi, any advice/solution appreciated,

I'm packing and was trying out all my lenses/ports on my Subal ND30.

For those of you who have read a couple of other posts here the Nikon d300 does seem to fit a bit strange in the Subal ND30 - its not a good fit like my Subal ND20/d200 at all.

Now I cannot attach the Subal dedicated 105vr port with the lens on the camera to the ND30. I try and try but it stops turning after about 5 or 10 degrees. On my old ND20 with the exact same port and lens it all fit and worked fine but nothing I can do will make this fit.

Here is what I've tried:

1) Tightened tray/tripod screw

2) Put camera back in the housing about 4 times

3) Put the Subal 105vr dedicated port on by itself (no lens) and it fits

4) Put the Nikon 105vr lens back on the d300 about 4 times to make sure it was on good

5) After I try to attach the 105vr port the 105vr lens stops working (I assume this is because the 105vr port is hitting a vital part of the lens and skewing it off so it ceases to work. When I reattach the lens without trying the port the lens works so it isn't the lens.

6) I've pulled out the focus knob on the 105vr port and the knob on the housing extra (but I shouldn't have to as they were fine with just the lever set to raise them on my ND20).

I'm bummed because the 105vr is one of the main lenses I wanted to use on my trip now. And it isn't just the fact that I can't use the 105vr lens with my new ND30, if something is that off center to cause the Subal dedicated 105vr port to impact the lens then my Tokina or other wide angle lenses will be off center also I assume so what good is the whole setup?

Someone else posted here the corners were off with a wide angle lens and the ND30.

I just wonder, now I'm not accusing anyone but doesn't someone test these things? You know Subal has raised their prices so much and I would just think that they have tried their housings out or even a dealer would have to see if it fits with their own Subal ports designed for specific lenses? Now I know mine just might be defective if that is the case but from other things I've read it looks like there is a problem with the ND30?

Of course I'll be contacting Ryan at ReefPhoto ASAP and trying to get something to shoot with for my trip (I'm leaving day after tomorrow).

And like I said I'd just forget shooting with the 105vr (even though it is one of my fav lenses) but I'm thinking that if the 105vr lens is skewed this badly to cause it not to operate in the ND30 that the w/a and other lenses will be so off as to cause a significant loss of quality.

Does anyone else have any other suggestions? I have looked at the 105vr lens in the housing and it does seem a little off center to me, or maybe even too far forward in the saddle? I can't tell for sure though because the 105vr is very fat on one side and it is hard to get an accurate measurement.

Any help is greatly appreciated,

Carol

Hi Carol,

To check if the lens is central find something to use as a gauge - don't know how big a gap you have but say it is just over 1/4" - find a pen or whatever that will just fit at the tightest point - then move it around the lens. You will find it is a lot easier to 'see' the size of the gap between the inserted object and the lens change.

While this is not a fix it will enable you to accurately determine in which plane the error is.

Paul C

Hi Carol,

 

To check if the lens is central find something to use as a gauge - don't know how big a gap you have but say it is just over 1/4" - find a pen or whatever that will just fit at the tightest point - then move it around the lens. You will find it is a lot easier to 'see' the size of the gap between the inserted object and the lens change.

 

While this is not a fix it will enable you to accurately determine in which plane the error is.

 

Paul C

Thanks Paul. I tried but problem is - well it is how the lens fits in the tight Subal housing. I try to measure around the lens but the "fat" part of the lens on the left side (right side while you are looking at it prevents and side to side comparison and then right above that are bayonet grooves that prevent an accurate measurement. I can say it looks to be off center quite a bit to the left (right as you are looking at the housing), but I'm not certain. Also I think the camera could just be too far forward and hitting too close to the end of the Subal 105vr port as that lens sits really sung in that port without much room on the end?

But thanks so much for the suggestion, I really appreciate the help.

I guess I could put the 60 on again and see if it looks off center, might be easier to tell with that lens. I'll try your suggestion above with the 60mm.

Thanks Tons, Carol

Paul,

From what I can tell with the 60 and the Tokina 10-17 it looks like the lenses center??? (but i could be wrong, it is still hard to tell with the bayonet pieces that stick out and are uneven and I'm not great at measuring).

I think the d300 is sliding too far forward. I didn't know about this when I purchased the ND30 but Subal changed their design a lot (wish someone had told me, this housing was shipped to me and I just trusted that the Subal ND30 would be as good as my former ND20)..... The ND20 for me fit the d200 camera in the housing like an glove with no problems but Ryan Canon told me that with the d300 it doesn't "slide in" the ND30 you have to push just to get the back to close - mine doesn't fit very well at all. I figure it is too far forward and causing the problems with the Subal 105vr port and 105vr lens, but also something could still to be impacting the lens and skewing it as something actually impacts the lens so bad that the lens stops functioning when the Subal 105vr port is being tried to being attached?

Still if the camera is too far forward that will affect other lenses too so I'm not optimistic that I'll be able to use this new ND30 on my trip at all, with any of my lenses/ports.......

Thanks, Carol

Sorry I am not familiar with the new 105 - but you are quite right any lens will show the issue.

Try to pick the fattest lens that you can, so that you can use the smallest diameter gauge.

The error you are looking for if it is the same as previous case seems to be quite small - in the region of 1/16".

Be surprised if the error is back / forward as the fit is so tight there is no option - it will just not fit and the rear tray latch will not close.

Paul C

Have you removed the eye piece and screen protectors from the camera?

They may be pushing the camera too far forward when you close the back.

Hey Carol

I note Paul C's views on the forward/back fit, but I wondered too whether the camera doesn't fit too far into the housing. We exchanged views a few days ago about the uncertainty of the rear focus selector engaging with the rear of the housing. This too could be due to the camera being slightly too far forward.

What a bummer for you with the 105. I had no problems at all with the 10-15 - if that's any consolation!

I'll pursue with Subal when they return from holiday in a couple of weeks.

I had a similar problem with a D2X housing. The 105VR port would catch the AF/M switch and basically turn off AF every time I installed in. The fit for the 105 is just that small. I learnt later quite a few people had problems with the ND2 housing and the 105 port due to the thickness. Later I figured out how to install the camera WITH the lens in the housing with the port already on. That worked 70% of the time. A real PITA.

Hi Tim,

You could well be right Tim, the rear focus mode selector does have quite a bit of 'float' before it engages.

Guess this is to allow you to put the back on even if the controls are misaligned and recover it without removing the back again.

Looking at it if you still don't engage when its is fully pushed in then you can adjust the control on the shaft - small metric Allen key.

The shaft has a retaining ring so it can't drop out.

For the camera to be too far 'back' then there would be a gap between the stainless plate at the front of the tray and the camera, too far 'forward' and

the camera would not fit on the tray and the rear push buttons would not make.

Having said that there is an alignment issue somewhere or there would be no problems!

Paul C

Thanks for the help all - I'm really at my wits end here also because I'm supposed to be packing..... eek!!

I did hear from Ryan and he said he tested two other ND30s from the same shipment as my housing and they worked with 105vr lens/port? Guess I'm just super unlucky that mine wasn't tested? But he did give me advice promptly and told me a couple of things to try and I do appreciate that very much.

First Okuma (yes, of course I took of the eyepiece and plastic LCD cover) - I know you had to ask but you obviously don't know me because I'm extremely meticulous. But thanks for stating the obvious anyway......

Drew I suspected the focus gear could be a problem, but it wasn't a problem with the same 105vr lens and Subal 105vr port on my ND20/d200. But Subal has changed the gearing on the focus gear and slanted it a lot more (than on the ND20) and it does indeed impact the 105vr lens. It took me 2 then 3 quarters to pull that gear out enough so it wouldn't impact the lens. That said there is still something hitting the lens and shutting it off and I can't figure out what?

Ryan suggested to load with the back off. I did this (although it is really hard to get the camera in and locked down that way - another negative of the ND30 housing as compared to the ND20). So I slid the d300 with 105vr attached in (with 3 quarters under the focus gear) and it at least worked for a few seconds (with the focus switch out of the way) but then when you tilted the camera even 1/2" front or back it shuts down the lens (and the lens won't come back on). So it is impacting something else, too far forward or ? But it is not a small thing or user error, it is a significant problem with this housing - something I still think should have been caught. Subal after-all charges a huge price for the dedicated Subal 105vr port and to send out a housing that clearly has problems working with their own dedicated port is very odd to me?

I realize things can be defective but I also let Ryan know the camera wasn't fitting well in the housing nearly a week ago.

I'm not a happy Subal customer at all right now. If this was my first introduction to Subal it would probably have been my last, but their ND20 housing fit the d200 so well and I know a lot of their housings are great. It is just that this ND30 cost $750 more than my ND20 did not even 2 years ago and it baffles me because I don't see $750 in improvements and even with inflation and the low dollar it doesn't make any dollar sense to me as the ND30, at least mine and possibly others do not fit their camera d300 models as well as the ND20s etc from what I have gathered and experienced. I have no idea what ND30 housing they gave, say Martin Edge to test, but I'm sure it got looked at and quality controled a lot better than mine........

Thanks for the help guys, sorry I can't pinpoint what is impacting the lens but something is (besides the focus switch gear).

Best, Carol

Not the same problem , but I had to change the location of the zoom ring for the D300 housing. My previous two Subal housings did not have a problem with this lens. I also had the problem with the 105 VR port, the D2X housing, and the M S C switch.

There is something going on with the camera positioning: I've just remembered during my Lembeh trip that getting the lens to release by using the lens release button on the housing was very hit and miss. A couple of times I was trying to poke a pencil down the housing to operate the button. How could I forget that!

Hmmmm, a conversation with Subal follows. I bought my housing from Seaoptics whilst living in Aus. But I've just moved back to the UK so if anyone from OceanOptics sees this, comments would be most welcome....... There seems to be a few of us having "issues" with the ND30. First time I've ever had problems with a Subal.

Not the same problem , but I had to change the location of the zoom ring for the D300 housing. My previous two Subal housings did not have a problem with this lens. I also had the problem with the 105 VR port, the D2X housing, and the M S C switch.

Thanks Dave, how did you change the location of the zoom ring, are you talking about one on a lens?

Anyway thanks.

I do want to add that Ryan from ReefPhoto has always serviced me very well, even if there was a problem. That is what is good about dealing with someone who will back you up. So if I sounded a bit "frustrated" yesterday well I was........., but I will work it out with Ryan from ReefPhoto and Subal as I do know Subal is a very good manufacturer also. That is what threw me because I've had such good luck with Subal and they are one of the most reliable housings out there - so their bar is higher on the other hand - and sometimes problems can seem more significant as expectations are higher also.

I'm packing now so that is it on this for awhile.

I'm sure I'll get something to shoot for my trip. Also the on/off/light switch on the Subal ND30 doesn't engage properly a lot, it slips and the light only engages 1/2 the time. This is on other lenses besides the 105vr so there seems to be an issue with this particular ND30. Also I had Tim's problem at first of the focus selector switch being so hard to turn off the first mode it was almost too hard to switch. Then one time I put the d300 camera in and turned the switch and I heard a "snap" from inside the housing that sounded like that switch. I had installed everything correctly to my knowledge. I then turned that same switch and it was almost too loose now but the switch is not broken at all so? So it does seem like something occurred to the mounting of the camera inside the housing, possibly skewing it off in some fashion. I had all the knobs, etc all pulled out and the on/off aligned correctly etc. Again it does seem that the action of having to push this d300 camera inside the Subal ND30 is more fraught with difficulties, at least for me, than the smooth way in which the d200 was mounted in the ND20.

Of course this is unusual for Subal and of course I will try to get something to shoot by the time I meet the bunch to dive in Tacoma on the 17th! As said Ryan has always serviced me well before I just wish circumstances hadn't dictated this late housing switch from ND20 to ND30 and the subsequent problems that are really too close to my trip (I'm leaving tomorrow but my husband will be staying home and will help with any housing logistics, getting it to me, etc. also. He always says he is "not getting involved with that camera".... but what a guy, he is still doing everything he can to bolster me with moral support....... ). And a good last night's sleep has done wonders for my optimism!

Thanks for all the help all, I do really appreciate it,

Kind Regards and Thanks, Carol

Have a wicked trip, Carol. I'm sure it'll all come right on the night, eh? Right???

Hey Carol,

Have a good trip; I'm sure you'll get great pics no matter what.

Call me when you get back and let's go diving!

I decided to test my 10-17 lens and port and my 105 VR lens and port with my D300 Subal housing.

Both seem to work fine.

The 105 VR port acted just like you described at first. Not inserting properly on to the housing. Stopping at about an 1/8th of a turn. But with a little practice and holding out the zoom gear on the housing (it pulls out), and the port slips on fine. Lens works properly on manual or AF. No vignetting in the shots.

I put on my 10-17 using the 15 mm gear. This works fine as well. No vignetting in the upper corners as was discussed in another post.

As far as the gear for my 12-24 I just adjusted it until it worked. The only other lens I have tried with a zoom gear was my 10-17. The gear had slipped off of that lens so I had to reattach it anyway. I don't know if it would have worked with the zoom gear in the old position.

I would suggest checking all your lens gears. They may need adjusting.

I got my D300 housing from Subal in late June. So I don't know if it is a revised model or naught.

Hi Dave

Any problems with the lens release button/lever; or engaging the rear focus selector switch?

I'm looking forward to learning more about Carols issues later today.

Here are some thoughts based on my experience. To add a bit of perspective, these are the most trouble free housings I've ever sold.

Any problems with the lens release button/lever;

I've seen these need adjustment a few times. Sometimes they get bent out of whack by installing a fat lens with the release engaged, and the lens hangs up on the control bending it toward the port mount slightly. They'll also come out of alignment with a lot of use, as the repeated action of releasing the lens can bend the control arm forward a little. This is easy to bend back with gentle finger pressure.

or engaging the rear focus selector switch?

Have you tried adjusting this control? Simply loosen the set screw on the claw, pull the shaft out a little , then tighten the set screw back.

The 105 VR port acted just like you described at first. Not inserting properly on to the housing. Stopping at about an 1/8th of a turn. But with a little practice and holding out the zoom gear on the housing (it pulls out), and the port slips on fine. Lens works properly on manual or AF. No vignetting in the shots.

If the housing's zoom/focus control is properly tuned, it will not impact the 105 vr lens when its clutch is engaged (marked af - - - mf on the outside of the housing). Pulling out the knob isn't necessary, nor are any quarters Alex . This clutch should be in the AF position when installing any lens, as should the clutch on the dedicated 105vr focus port if you are using that.

If the switch is in the MF position, the zoom/focus control will bump the lens. This is one reason a lens support is machined into the end of Subal's 105vr port. Even with this engaged accidentally, the lens support will properly center the lens.

As far as the gear for my 12-24 I just adjusted it until it worked. The only other lens I have tried with a zoom gear was my 10-17. The gear had slipped off of that lens so I had to reattach it anyway. I don't know if it would have worked with the zoom gear in the old position.

 

I would suggest checking all your lens gears. They may need adjusting.

They will need adjusting, but this is known. Subal's D3 and D300 housings have a revised zoom/focus control dial placement that makes fitting larger lenses (like 105vr) in the housing easier. Moving this dial necessitates replacement or modification of any gears that are driven from the housing.

I had a similar problem with a D2X housing. The 105VR port would catch the AF/M switch and basically turn off AF every time I installed in. The fit for the 105 is just that small. I learnt later quite a few people had problems with the ND2 housing and the 105 port due to the thickness. Later I figured out how to install the camera WITH the lens in the housing with the port already on. That worked 70% of the time. A real PITA.

A piece of gaffers tape covering the switch works 100% of the time. I super glued the limit switch on my 100mm USM when I shot Canon to eliminate a similar issue.

Really helpful, Ryan - thanks

I had Carol's housing in my store yesterday, and after spending about 2 hours trying to recreate her issues, I was baffled. I didn't think she'd believe me, so I made a youtube

The above video illustrated Carol's housing, my d300, my 105vr, and my very well used 105vr port. I was able to rule out any issues with Carols housing, but couldn't eliminate a mutant d300 body, lens, or port.

After speaking with Arnold Stepanek this morning it appears there may be a possible change that merits adjustment. The ND30 and ND3 are 1mm closer to the port bayonet than earlier cameras to eliminate vignetting issues that occurred from crooked dome shades, etc. That 1mm MAY be enough to cause the front of the lens to bump the port's centering ring.

The centering ring is a friction fit, and if it were too close to the body, but the port were pushed on firmly, it would move forward to the correct position for that housing/camera/lens combo.

If someone else experiences such an issue the best answer is to move the centering ring forward with a wooden dowel and gentle pressure. I can forward engineering drawings that illustrate this clearly if contacted privately.