BBC Dumbing down?

I've had a series of annoyed e-mails from Steffi Schwabe because she is the scientist and deep-diving petrologist that has been researching the Black Hole in Andros. She had nothing good to say about the BBC team or Paul Rose and was not surprised that she was not even mentioned in that part of the programme although she was their holding their hands while they shot it.

A typical excerpt: "I am saddened that I have risked my life so often to share with the world, what it is that I do and to be shafted like I was with the BBC."

Yes, the BBC shoots shit now. (I'm not AA Gill but I choose my words carefully)

Oh, and just a small point: All the diving locations have previously been covered by us in Diver Magazine! Is that where they did their script research?

better than the Blue Planet, is he on drugs.

i have watched them all, and it isn't for the content. I watch it to see how bad it can be this time. It is deffinately getting worse as the weeks go on. Why do people who make this kind of programme always have to exagerate everything. Some of the things that get said each week :

1. They are diving in ripping currents. ( um, their bubbles dont seem to give that indication, it actually looks very calm indeed. )

2. No one has ever dived here before. ( I think they most probably have )

3. He is alone down there and running out of oxygen. ( there is a cameraman down there too, i would expect at least one safety back up diver, oh and please it isnt oxygen in that cylinder )

4. Wow thats amazing, this is such a rare sighting. ( usually means there are 2 mantas in the frame )

They more or less found out this week that there are little wrasse on the reef that clean parasites off of other fish that come by, they claim it to be a cleaning station. so take note for when you are next on a reef somewhere, look out for these little wrasse. How amazing would that be to see.

Bring back Ross

 

BBC underwater "Oceans".

 

Well done Paul for kicking this one off. I was wondering if my total disappointment with this ‘show’ was just me being grumpy. It’s not, it’s truly awful. What a lot of wasted everythings.

For me what really gives it the stamp of TV garbage is the choice or narrator – I’m pretty sure he is the man adding such gravitas to another BBC program (although probably a bought in format) ‘The Apprentice’.

Wow ... pretty damning views here.

Presenter led series are never going to beat out a series like the Blue Planet/Planet Earth where there is little human interference. I do have to say that the difficulties of shooting with a person in shot while getting behavior isn't just about time and effort, it's also (largely in fact) about serendipity as well. I can easily name a larger production called Wild Oceans (Imax) which had the worst luck in shooting the sequences they needed. Factor in Imax camera size and the speed at which the subject moves, they skunked 2 years running trying to shoot it and that was without a presenter. On a smaller scale, Jeff Corwin went to south africa for the baitballs and got nothing good with him in the shot, mainly because conditions were not great and "other" things as well.

How easy is it for a presenter to be shot in strong current with a fullface mask? As TDPriest says, I do think this series and how it was written is aimed directly at the general public and not for people like us. The messages from the shark conservation to apex predator changes due to overfishing does go a long way if presented as a fact and not preachingly. Getting the interest of people in aquatic world and not thrusting our agenda does work, albeit slowly.

Jacques Couteau's Conshelf II project being revisited by his grandson adds a humanistic aspect, without being anthropomorphic about sea denizens displaying "human" characteristics. I think that's a great idea.

The good news is next year, the beeb will be releasing a new series that will at least have some awesome sequences (Sorry Auntie Beeb but I think you need a bit of promo in this thread ) Also I hope to see Tooni more often on TV, I'm so waiting for a presenter who isn't old and graying, male and/or blonde and actually have a brain!

AA Gill is a joke himself so his views I'll just treat with similar contempt he tries so hard to show others.

Just so you all know, there is at least 1 fellow wetpixel member (lurker mostly) who did participate in the making of this series.

John, unfortunately many production companies regularly forget to credit the many people who help with the series. The producers on location are usually bundles of raw nerves and do not take note of the contributions of people they hire/volunteers etc in the final thanks you in the credits. I do have to say that TV presenters are also human and generally not like as their on screen persona. Some are nicer and well some are just grumpy folks. Talking about credit, even camera work credit has been left out of many premier series like Planet Earth etc. They sometimes try to correct it in the DVD or the 2nd broadcasts and sometimes not

Well, I usually can't abide AA Gill, a preening, self-important misanthrope if there ever was one, but he's pretty close to the mark.

 

I read the Times online to read his restaurant reviews. If you skip the first 1/3 of every review where he talks about the world and himself (and I don't get any of it, must be a Brit thing) the food reviews are actually (IMHO) quite interesting.

My thoughts exactly Paul. I think it is an attempt to recreate the original Cousteau series but is unbelievably off the mark. The script is appalling - there have been so many bold statements that just don't hold water! What a waste of time and effort. I bet Mike Pitts the underwater cameraman is cringing now with what has been produced.

Andy

While I was in no way associated with BBC Oceans, I did happen to be on a ship the BBC chartered in Tanzania during their production of the series. I have to say I have never seen so much kit, so many people continuously planning, and shooting that seemed absolute chaos and never following the plan. We were even held in port in Zanzibar over a permitting issue. I was there studying whale sharks and we asked them several times if they wanted to do any segments with them or my research. They seemed highly disinterested, and told me they were going to do whale sharks in Mozambique. Feeling useless, I hopped off the ship at Mafia Island so I could get some observations done for a few days. After I left, they decided to go out a film whale sharks - very irritating as I could have used the familiar boats and crew of the MV Kairos for observations. Oh well. I enjoyed meeting Phillippe - and his heart is in the right place - but I wasn't impressed with the overall production and I guess that translates into the end product. That being said, I was just involved in another BBC shoot - presenter based and aimed at children called the Deadly 60. They had a small crew that got great footage and covered several of our shark research projects from the Bimini Biological Field Station. Though the segments are short and it is geared towards a young audience, I hope and believe this program will live up to a higher standard. Small, efficient, and effective seems a lot better than the cluster*$#@ that was the Oceans shoot. Maybe that had something to do with the end product as well...

cheers!

- MDP

Also I hope to see Tooni more often on TV, I'm so waiting for a presenter who isn't old and graying, male and/or blonde and actually have a brain!

Hmmmm... Depends on your version of intelligence... For many of us 'Normal' peeps there are too many 'brainiacs' on the TV and we get turned off by so called 'pros'... most people i speak to are looking for presenters who have 'Passion' rather than lots of knowledge... Someone they can relate to rather than another 'expert in their field' who (to most divers) are unreachable and unapproachable...

I thought Oceans was... Okay... yes alot of it was over dramatised, but as Mr Bantin said they were pointing this production at a wider audience rather than a few thousand divers. people love suspense and danger and of course SEX, but this was the BBC ... We 'experienced' divers probably hid behind our pillows with embarrassment... But the phone call from my Ma worrying that i was engaging in a seriously dangerous activity after watching it speaks for itself...(no shes not a diver..lol)

Anyway i must get back to my new production 'Killer Pike 2, the evil monsters that lurk below'... should shift a few copies...

Dive safe

DeanB

Maybe Fox bought BBC; wouldn't that be the end of the empire!

looking for presenters who have 'Passion' rather than lots of knowledge...

So, did the lady interviewing you have lot's of passion?

I'd say Burman on the tv is conclusive proof of dumbing down!

For me, the major problems were the repetition of woolly environmental platitudes and the lingering pretence that the expeditions in themselves were going to seriously contribute to ocean science. Better to have used the team as specialist reporters and have them interview the people who were doing the real science.

Half the time, the sites they were visiting were classic dives where the camera crew were assured of getting some reasonable footage, and I think they would have been better off being honest about that rather than trying to dress the whole thing up as some worthy scientific venture. I suspect that's a cultural by-product of the BBC department that produced the series.

Also, I think they fell back once too often on a 'diving drama' whenever the diving supervisors lost contact with their charges. I think the work of the supervisors is interesting, but the producers' insistence on hyping up these minor dramas has rebounded on them. It just looks like they've got nothing else to show.

I've met Paul Rose, and I think he's a solid guy who wants to show the public real divers doing our thing. At times, the series has seemed a bit vapid, but overall I think it's been good for the diving industry. Non-divers are more likely to be enthused by this one than established divers, or at least that has been the experience of my friends. I'm not personally a fan of presenter-led documentaries, but it seems to be what the viewers expect, so they're here to stay.

I'd say Burman on the tv is conclusive proof of dumbing down!

Ouch... that's cold... but... hmmmm..

I'm not personally a fan of presenter-led documentaries, but it seems to be what the viewers expect, so they're here to stay.

Over-dramatization of little issues is always a good way to involve the audience. It's classic cinematic tension and audience/character association. From Sir David A to Jacques C, it draws the audience in when a human (which somewhat resembles them ) is doing the stuff. Interviews take away some of the "action" from the presenters, who are suppose to be personalities. Many people associate dumbing down with mass appeal, which is a bit elitist. AA Gill types likes to put down the masses because it elevates his status as an elite member of society, smarter than most. If he bothered to check his sources (like he did for his Darfur articles, Planet Earth was co-produced by Discovery, as are quite a few other series. That's how the broadcast companies can afford these bigger budget productions, by sharing the costs. Mass appeal isn't about dumbing down, it's about making it accessible across socio-economic, cultural and other barriersm including age!

Ouch... that's cold... but... hmmmm..

Well ignoring the under handed insult / jealousy / whatever... ... I somewhat agree as im not a so called 'expert' who thinks he knows it all and baffles the majority with gobble de gook or the pro who has an IQ up in the stratosphere.. .. im the man on the street, in the pub with a passion and, hopefully, who the majority can relate to as Mr Ellerbrock heard at the diveshow and i was amazed at, I do have influence in peoples decisions in things (hopefully the right one John..lol) as i am more 'approachable' well i like to think anyway... Also people can be shoved down your throat too much so introducing new presenters for presenter led progs etc can be good but don't over do it... I think this can be said for a certain charismatic ex marine who seems to be everywhere at the mo... i expect he's a lovely bloke and someone you can have a laugh with, but he's bleeding everywhere and ive started to turn channels and skip pages of mags because of the overkill and im not the only one... Its can be detrimental... Lets get back to proper doccies with a decent narration and not hyper over enthusiastic (because their told be) people...

Anyway

Dive safe

Dean(dumb to some but not to most)B

Sorry Dean. That joke went a bit far. I'll have Mike spank Simon as well, perhaps while wearing his pink dress.

Still I do think the point of this sort of programming is to go beyond the market of traditional docos. There's at least 8 different discovery and Natgeo channels. Diversification and mass appeal is the way to go to get the attention of the public. I think the problem with having the traditional docos is that it appeals to the already knowledgeable. The Jeffs, Steves, Bradys and Jacques of the world appeal to a broader market, which can only be a good thing if the message gets across. Problem is they are still trying to find the right formula. I guess the Beeb are looking for their NHU Ian Wright.

...problem is they are still trying to find the right formula. ....

There must be a way to blend unbridled enthusiasm with quality content... don't you think?

Surely it can't be that hard... but hey it obviously is....

i cannot decide who this production is aimed at. if it is for dive enthusiasts then it really is a croc of old poo. if it is for the wider audience then i dont think it will encourage many people to start diving. as they make diving out to be really dangerous. i personally dont think that it is aimed at the wider audience otherwise they would have had a well known celebrity on the trip.

stew

Sorry Dean. That joke went a bit far. I'll have Mike spank Simon as well, perhaps while wearing his pink dress.

 

Still I do think the point of this sort of programming is to go beyond the market of traditional docos. There's at least 8 different discovery and Natgeo channels. Diversification and mass appeal is the way to go to get the attention of the public. I think the problem with having the traditional docos is that it appeals to the already knowledgeable. The Jeffs, Steves, Bradys and Jacques of the world appeal to a broader market, which can only be a good thing if the message gets across. Problem is they are still trying to find the right formula. I guess the Beeb are looking for their NHU Ian Wright.

Cripes !!! no offence taken... I was being sarcastic... If that upset me then id start worrying...

Well i hope they dont get wrighty in on the act...lol..

Although i do agree with what stew said... I do think it isolated diving by not quite reaching its intended or even not intended audience... Well from what feedback ive been hearing..

Dive safe

Dean(tough skin)B

Just to add - I thought it was a crap series too!

Hi again all,

I just can't see where the intended market for this series is supposed to lie. Most divers can see through the sketchy diving and science, and at the saMe time, I can't see that this has enough pull with "normal" people. I don't see many switching from pop idol or what have you to watch a series that despite it's own hype doesn't deliver any of the goods. People need either an interest or entertainment to watch a program, and I would say this series offers neither.

I know Paul as well, and he is a very personable, competent and amenable guy, but like the rest of us, he has a living to earn. I would imagine that he has done what most of us would do and taken da money.....!

If this is the future of the BBC's productions, rather than a blip, I hope that we are all given the option of opting out of the licence fee soon!

All the best

Adam

LOL It's obvious that WP members will not be asked to review the DVD.

PS: How could anyone not like that shot of the Sperm whales having a tussle with Cousteau in the foreground?