Subject: Raja Ampat Cityseahorse Deb Fugitt Ondina

Subject: Raja Ampat Cityseahorse Deb Fugitt Ondina

I did an 11 day trip to Raja Ampat with Deb Fugitt CitySeahorse tours on the Ondina in November 08.

This is a review I wish I'd read before I went.

A lot has been written about Raja Ampat diving.

Here's a few words about what it isn't:

It isn't about good visibility. Average viz for us was 35-45 feet.

The local guides told us this was typical.

It isn't about big fish.

We saw just a handful of sharks, a few mantas, napoleon wrasse, jacks, and

few other pelagics.

The boat:

The Ondina is a safe, stable 100 ft vessel. Diving is done from two inflatable dinghies. The crew is excellent - friendly, competent and helpful. Cabins were basic but noisy and at least three of them had AC issues and one of them had problems with fumes and exhaust from gasoline or diesel.

The food:

The kitchen staff were delightful and the food was seriously lacking. Fried something for almost every lunch and dinner. Instant noodles appeared more than once or twice. Our airline meal on Silk Air economy class back to Singapore was gourmet in comparison.

The diving:

Most dive ops in my experience strive to offer a wide variety of sites.

Not so with our charter. On most days, Deb Fugitt preferred to park the boat for the entire day at a mediocre reef and offered 'Open Deck' diving.

No less than five of the eleven days were spent at ordinary, shallow dive sites:

Two entire days (10 hours per day), were spent at The Passage - a site with 35 ft maximum depth and 25 to 30 foot visibility.

One day (four dives) at a small village pier. Depth about 15 to 45 feet.

Another entire day (10 hours) was spent diving in a mangrove area. Brown green water looking for critters amongst muddy tree roots, 25 to 30 ft viz and max depth about 40 feet. Get the picture?

Not to mention the first afternoon spent on a checkout dive in Sorong harbor.

For a capable live aboard with so much potential like the Ondina, I found this routine inexcusable.

I translated 'open deck" to mean "lets save on our fuel costs".

Yes, we did dive Cape Kri, Mike's Point and Kaleidoscope. They were great and I wanted more. A few friends and I repeatedly requested the lead dive master and cruise director for more sites like these but to no avail. The diving was clearly not about offering choices to the guests, it was all about Deb.

So, in summary, if you are a passive, sedate, complacent or sheep-like diver, content with kneeling in 35 feet on a mundane, ordinary reef dive after dive for yet one more photo of Nemo, City Seahorse tours with Deb Fugitt is for you.

However, if you are looking for world class, high voltage, or adventure diving, you might find it at Raja Ampat but its unlikely you will find it with Deb Fugitt's charters.

Here are a few of your options:

You have been warned.

Raja Ampat and Triton Bay (Papua) Liveaboard Diving Cruises on the luxurious schooner The Seven Seas

Main page

Raja Ampat Cruises, Raja Ampat Diving

Grand Komodo - Tours & Dives

Hello twhi,

I am sorry that you did not enjoy your trip and the group leader did not respond to your requests to change.

I have to say I love trips where you stay on one site for the whole day. Yes, as a diver this might not see all the sites, but as a photographer this approach gives you the chance to shoot subjects review your images and then go back in and improve them.

I have not met Deb or Tony, but many at Wetpixel have been on their trips and speak highly of them. I'll be interested to see what their thoughts are on your comments.

Alex

Have dealt w/Deb before - "stubborn" might be an appropriate description...

I've never been on one of her trips (by choice), although I have been on the boat. It's reasonably comfortable, but others have had small issues w/it in the past (and there are better boats in the region now...)

This sounds like you signed up for the trip w/out really understanding the itinerary. Deb makes it pretty clear on her site what the schedule will be like...

I have been on this trip with Deb and Tony. As for the Ondina, I'm not a fan. I'll leave it at that.

I have a completely different take on the diving. My perspective on what works best for a photographic trip is in line with the way Deb runs her trips. Clearly, some people have a completely different take on what a trip should look like. I like to avoid the typical live-aboard itinerary.

Before I respond to your points, I will state up front that I consider Raja the best overall diving I've experienced.

1) Visibility - It is quite variable, even at its best it will never be 30m/100ft. So what. Visibility is overrated. If you want great vis, try an Olympic size pool or even the Bahamas. Vis would rule Lembeh right out of the top ten.

2) Pelagics - I find it difficult to find warm water sites that supply large pelagics, colorful hard and soft corals, schools of fish and great macro subjects. I don't schedule a trip thinking I'm going to cover the entire gamut of diving. The Mantas were a bonus. One can never expect great Pelagic activity. If one wants Pelagic action, then one should choose a destination which offers it as a prime consideration. I'm not sure if anyone has falsely claimed Raja as a great Pelagic destination.

3) Parking the boat and open deck is always preferred by some of us. We don't have to prep gear for a specific dive time and we can take as long as we won't. The opposite is rigid schedules with rigid bottom times so the boat can move to another location. One photog complained constantly while on the Odyssea because of rigid follow the guide routine and 40-50 minute time limits.

4) Two entire days (10 hours per day), were spent at The Passage - a site with 35 ft maximum depth and 25 to 30 foot visibility. Depth is even more irrelevant than visibility. Two days may be a bit much, but it is definitely a great location. We had some folks who didn't care much for it (they thought the best dive was riding the 7 knot current in the middle of the passage all the way back to the boat). I considered the Passage a great place to shoot both macro and wide angle.

5) Another entire day (10 hours) was spent diving in a mangrove area. Brown green water looking for critters amongst muddy tree roots, 25 to 30 ft viz and max depth about 40 feet. Get the picture? I get the picture. I got a lot of pictures there. Without the Mangroves, I wouldn't have gone on the trip. I would have stayed there two days in order to catch different tides and light direction. The vis on my second dive was well over 50ft. I only spent 112 minutes on that dive, solo diving...from an open deck. If I had waited for a scheduled time, I would have missed the best vis. I can't wait to go back. I kick myself for shorting the second dive at 112 minutes as it was the best vis. I still had over half a tank. The 3rd dive had great light, but poor vis. I can't wait to go back. Granted, it's not for everyone. But I was looking for something different. The salt water mangroves are different.

6) Yes, we did dive Cape Kri, Mike's Point and Kaleidoscope. They were great and I wanted more. A few friends and I repeatedly requested the lead dive master and cruise director for more sites like these but to no avail. How many more like them do you think there are? If there were equivalent sites along the way, you probably would have dived them. Theses are the big draw. I'm not sure where he could have taken you. The antithesis would be to keep moving to lesser quality sites in order to give you more variety of sites.

7) So, in summary, if you are a passive, sedate, complacent or sheep-like diver, content with kneeling in 35 feet on a mundane, ordinary reef dive after dive for yet one more photo of Nemo, City Seahorse tours with Deb Fugitt is for you. I am of a completely different opinion. Spending a day in the Mangroves or Passage is for someone who doesn't want another picture of Nemo.

8) However, if you are looking for world class, high voltage, or adventure diving, you might find it at Raja Ampat but its unlikely you will find it with Deb Fugitt's charters. Nice qualifier. "you might". What other Sorong to Sorong boats have you been on? I'm not sure what kind of "high octane" and "adventure" one might expect to find on another boat doing the same itinerary. I find this statement misleading.

Traveling to Raja isn't for everyone. Diving Raja isn't for everyone. The Ondina isn't for everyone. A Deb Fugitt trip isn't for everyone. You keep implying that you were mislead about the diving in general and the itinerary and yet provide no evidence of such. Then your final statement is that it might have all been different on another boat with no support for such a conclusion. Deb is quite clear on how she runs her trips. Her trips are for serious photographers. It is not for the non-photographer or casual shooter.

It is quite possible that another boat would have been more comfortable and had better food. I'm hoping that is the case on my next trip. I'm not convinced that a Sorong to Sorong itinerary could have been better under the direction of someone else or on another boat. My perspective on diving is clearly different than yours and one should take into consideration their own expectations when choosing any destination or operator.

Opinions,and experiences for a boat or trip will always include some negative experiences. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I have been on two trips on his boat with city seahoses. I feel lucky,as their trips, often book up well in advance. They have been running trips to that area for over 10 years, and probably know the area better then most. The trips are run for photographers, which by the camera on your profile, you may not be as avid as some of us. In fact I may have been on your trip. I think they run one of the best trips for photographers I've ever been on, and cant wait to get back next year. I go for the diving. I dont care about the food or rooms, so I have no opinion on that. I have been on many trips where the diving is all about what the trip leaders want, they are NOT like that. They adjust the itinerary based on what people want. On our trip we were given choices to stay or go to sites. Rather then write a negative report, it sounds like you should research tour trips better, and give them a break

Two entire days (10 hours per day), were spent at The Passage - a site with 35 ft maximum depth and 25 to 30 foot visibility.

 

One day (four dives) at a small village pier. Depth about 15 to 45 feet.

 

Another entire day (10 hours) was spent diving in a mangrove area. Brown green water looking for critters amongst muddy tree roots, 25 to 30 ft viz and max depth about 40 feet. Get the picture?

Sounds like a photographer's paradise...

... I can't wait (though I have to admit we are sailing on Seven Seas).

I dabbled in the mangroves of Bonaire, snorkelling from a canoe, and I've had a few thoughts that I want to try out, though I probably won't be able to take my circular fisheye with current baggage limitations. On second (third, fourth, fifth... n-th) thoughts, if I don't have to worry about a lens for big stuff, perhaps I can....

Can any old Raja Ampat hands suggest what lenses they would find useful out there?

Tim

Take the circular fisheye. Should be cool in Lembeh too!

Alex

TAKE the fisheye check my pics, all wides taken with the 10 to 17 tokina, and three strobes www.flickr.com/photos/vazuw

Twhi, sorry to hear you had a bad trip. Unfortunately, it would seem part of the issue is that you failed to do due diligence in researching the area, the boat and the City Seahorse outfit. As the others have said, it seems City Seahorse is a photog's trip. That means sitting on sites and shooting the crap out of the area before moving on. Unfortunately, that leaves out the casual photog want for variation. Even a casual search on Wetpixel I've found a few threads with descriptions of City Seahorse and Deb's trips dating back several years. I know of very few operators who'd say no to any client signing on to fill slots (other than a blacklisted customer) so it's always caveat emptor.

I've also been on trips where non-photog people were shoved on to fill slots for a photog critter exploration and they kept asking for fishy sites vs muck diving (which the trip had been sold as). It's never pretty when that happens.

It is very unfortunate you did not fully enjoy your trip and you felt the food was subpar (but to compare it to SilkAir? Man that's harsh!). Supplies of gourmet food items is very limited in Papua Barat. Even the expats in the mining and pearl farms fly their stuff in. It's tough enough to get decent fuel prices in Sorong.

R4 does have great viz, depending on the time of year, lunar cycle and sometimes your luck. I've had good to great viz when I've gone. 45-60ft is norm in my experience (and it does vary a lot due to the tides) except for sites where the brackish water is a natural part of the ecosystem. It's not a place for constant 150ft viz (best I've seen was around 110ft). Pelagics? Well suffice to say there are one or 2 sites which are still pretty decent (and on occasion pretty amazing for the area). Yes the sharks have been longlined out years ago. In 96 when I first went there, we saw some big sharks (including S. Morrokan and G Cuviers) but by 2001, they were gone. I'm afraid that everywhere in Indonesia, if you've dived it in the 80s and early 90s, the effects of fishing (aquarium and commercial), warming waters and possibly dive boats have had VERY negative effects. I know 2 veterans of Indo diving, who've been diving in the area since the 70s, be not so impressed in Raja Empat.

The good news is that CI will be exploring the area next Jan for new dive sites since there are now up to 14 boats in the area and the best dive sites are overcrowded (and deteriorating with the increased traffic).

They have been running trips to that area for over 10 years, and probably know the area better then most.

Now that's not true. They started diving there in '99 (http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6085). See? A simple search on WP finds all sorts of strange 'facts'. Although I do find that whole the first americans claim a bit strange. I'm American and I was there in 97 and I know I wasn't the first. Ah well, that's advertising! Caveat Emptor.

twhi,

Sorry about your experience.

I feel for you, after spending maybe $5000 on airfare+boat, it sucks not to be happy. I had friends who were on a channel islands liveaboard who had exactly the same experience you had. They wanted to visit different and deeper sites, and the boat just parked on shallow sites. They also said most of the other people were very happy on the trip.

I agree with Drew, you need to thoroughly research a dive boat and the area, especially for a trip this long & expensive. Vis varies greatly in any area depending on time of year. I don't agree that all photography trips sit on the same site all day, but many do, especially if they cater to dSLR wide-angle photographers. Some people love that, some people hate it.

When I think of pelagics, I think of galapogas, cocos, palau.. I'm not sure what you expected to see. I always thought RA was famous for pretty reefs, lots of fish, and mangroves.

Well I hope your next trip is better, and I hope you participate in the site more than just a couple posts.

Scott

I know of very few operators who'd say no to any client signing on to fill slots ...

 

Now that's not true. They started diving there in '99 (http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6085). See? A simple search on WP finds all sorts of strange 'facts'. Although I do find that whole the first americans claim a bit strange. I'm American and I was there in 97 and I know I wasn't the first. Ah well, that's advertising!

I don't usually reply to people who post their opinions of the trips I organize. Tom Witt's insulting comments about the divers who enjoy these trips are very upsetting to me, as are his several misleading statements.. so I'm going to make a detailed reply later.

Just a few quick comments now. We just got back from Indonesia yesterday...

"They have been running trips to that area for over 10 years, and probably know the area better then most." vazuw

Drew is right. It is 10 years, not over 10. Started with first group in '99. Each trip 21 days and longer. We've logged about 1800 dives in Raja Ampat.. and most all of those with groups I organized.. from 4 to 12 divers.. any more is too many.

I'd still have to say that we know the area better than most even if it is not over 10 years.

I was not, until now, aware that any other Americans were there before us. Who did you dive with, Drew?

Drew wrote "I know of very few operators who'd say no to any client signing on to fill slots".

Well, I'm one. I have and do turn down people who I determine are not going to fit in with the type of diving we do or the group aboard. I've been jumped on by people on this very forum for doing so and admitting it.

I quiz non-photographers extra hard since I know some of them want to dive differently. I have many non-photog regulars and new ones too ... but they understand how we dive before they send a deposit. I'm also turning down people with medical problems that put them (and the rest in the group) at risk of needing to return to port and ruin the trip. Fine with me if people want to risk their own lives.. but let them do it somewhere it isn't going to ruin 11 other diver's trip!

Tom's trip was full about a year in advance with a waiting list. I'd have been overjoyed to have compatible divers on that trip. While they didn't say anything to us on the trip about diving or food, there was a strange attitude that was even noticed by the crew. Probably the fact that they skipped about 1/2 the dives was a clue.

"Have dealt w/Deb before - "stubborn" might be an appropriate description..." oneyellowtang.

I am stubborn. No doubt. Might be a good quality for a trip organizer? When a dive operator or another guest wants to take the dive boat/tender away and leave divers unsupported underwater I throw fits. Really stubborn about that. When bags get left behind I'm really stubborn about seeing they get delivered ASAP to the guests. Lots more comes to mind. But I do listen to guests that book on our trips and do my best to accommodate their desires. Can't always do it as logistics and safety are also issues.

Thanks for the comments about R4, my trips, etc. to all those who have a lot of experience.. and especially scorpio_fish and vazuw... we've dived R4 together!

More later. Jet lag calling...

DebF

I was not, until now, aware that any other Americans were there before us. Who did you dive with, Drew?

Opps I'm mistaken. It was '96. The Pindito has been going out to R4 way before anyone else significant was. And a few americans slipped pass the eurocentric boat apparently Max probably told you you were the first american group. Then again, he does have memory issues sometimes I also returned in 98 with at 2 other americans on another boat. Back then Melissa's Garden was just called "Really cool 3 islets covering an area with fat sea snakes and gorgeous corals"

Well, I'm one. I have and do turn down people who I determine are not going to fit in with the type of diving we do or the group aboard. I've been jumped on by people on this very forum for doing so and admitting it.

 

I quiz non-photographers extra hard since I know some of them want to dive differently. I have many non-photog regulars and new ones too ... but they understand how we dive before they send a deposit. I'm also turning down people with medical problems that put them (and the rest in the group) at risk of needing to return to port and ruin the trip. Fine with me if people want to risk their own lives.. but let them do it somewhere it isn't going to ruin 11 other diver's trip!

 

Tom's trip was full about a year in advance with a waiting list. I'd have been overjoyed to have compatible divers on that trip. While they didn't say anything to us on the trip about diving or food, there was a strange attitude that was even noticed by the crew. Probably the fact that they skipped about 1/2 the dives was a clue.

Well, I guess your vigorous screening didn't detect the expectations of Tom and his group. Obviously, you can't please everyone and definitely can't be a mind reader. However, if someone was skipping 1/2 the dives, perhaps approaching them on the boat would've avoided this entire topic post altogether. Tom's position on the boat is fair since cuisine is highly subjective. His dislike of your intinerary, especially if you had furnished him with it beforehand and how you run your trip, is a little unfair, although he is totally allowed to have his opinion. That said, I dislike forum disputes between operators and clients, it never ends well and nothing comes of it.

I've moved the thread to the trip report area where it's more apt as it is Tom's view of the boat and charterer.

Hi Deb,

I checked out you website, looks very interesting. Do you still have room for folks in 2009?

Cheers,

Steve

I've been on three of Deb's trips - the first to St. Vincent and then two trips to Indonesia (including Raja Ampat aboard Ondina both times). The latest one - earlier this year - was perhaps the best dive trip I've ever been on. I credit Deb with helping make possible some of the best photos I personally have ever taken.

Quoting from a post I made about Deb three years ago, "I organize charters myself, and the reason I've gone with her (and expect to again in the future) is that she simply constructs and runs outstanding uw photo trips. She goes out of her way to think of every detail, and directs the dive operators she uses so as to maximize photo opportunities for her groups."

Deb is very devoted to one goal: providing her clients the best possible photo/video opportunities. She is not particularly interested in being a warm and fuzzy mother figure, and she won't rearrange the schedule to suit one or two divers at the cost of what the rest of the group wants (photo/video opportunities). When she finds a great photo spot (e.g., the Passage, which is a unique group of mangrove islands with great over-under and other opportunities), and all the photographers keep coming back dive after dive having seen/photographed great stuff and can't wait to get back in the water, she'll stay all day...or more. Before each wide angle dive, she makes sure one of the divemasters actually goes out in a ponga and gets IN the water to check the currents; if the currents are wrong/aren't ideal for wide angle (i.e., strong enough to cause soft corals to be feeding), she'll move to a different site. And as we all know, some of the greatest macro diving is in limited visibility ("muck dive"?).

I could see how that might annoy someone wanting to get to the next dive site to see something "new." As a photographer, however, I LOVE being able to spend all day in a great spot. And I love having someone who knows the area and dive sites always looking for ways to maximize great photo opp's.

While I'm sorry that Mr. Witt's trip didn't live up to his expectations, I think that is more a result of his expectations, rather than Deb's trip management. Could she possibly have warned him more fully that the focus of the trip would be photography/videography, including lots of potentially "boring" (to non-photographers) diving? Perhaps.

But I find it rather ironic that a non-photographer started a thread criticizing Deb for a trip that, as Tim put it, "Sounds like a photographer's paradise...", and did so here on Wetpixel. It has probably actually accomplished the exact opposite of what he intended, as it will likely glean Deb a number of new clients...

Bruce, to be fair to Tom, he's just writing a trip report of his thoughts of the trip. The tone is slightly sarcastic which is understandable with the disappointment but not needed to get his point across. If anything, Tom has helped Deb to detail her trip itineraries and the type of diving one can expect on her trips publicly. Hopefully future clients will read this thread and know what they are paying for. I certainly hope this thread doesn't degrade into a mudslinging match for either side.

As Sgietler states, not all photogs want to sit in a site and get the same photos of the same subjects as everyone else. I personally like to find new dive sites and spend at least 1/4 of the time trying new places, after talking to local fishermen.

You also have to consider other boats in the area. If a boat sits on a site for the day, other boats are left out or it gets crowded. The boats often point to the charterer/trip organizers. With 14 boats in the area, the 'hot sites' are starting to get crowded. The MPA will only succeed if more operators come in, something present operators don't want. That's why there's a plan to find more dive sites in R4, especially in the blue mangroves and other areas like near P. Boo area where everyone wants to dive as part of their R4 itinerary. But this is so I'll stop.

The food:

The kitchen staff were delightful and the food was seriously lacking.

I'd rather have it that way around than the other...

... and anyone who has met me knows (sadly) the size of my stomach.

At the risk of transatlantic amity being jeopardised, I have noticed that US citizens are far more vocal in their criticism of poor service and poor food and poor facilities than are europeans. Maybe we are closer to the origin of the stoic's philosophy, or maybe we don't have it so good at home (I'm thinking of diving for a weekend from an English seaside "bed & breakfast" boarding house, built in the early Victorian era and never redecorated, with breakfast rashers of bacon that approach American crunchiness, but from age rather than intent, run by a woman that looks like the late Benny Hill , here).

Applying the standards of the world's richest country to the developing world must be a mistake, and if we want those standards, the ecological price will be catastrophic, as it is becoming in Europe and America, Russia, China, Japan...

Tim

PS (as yesterday) a respiratory virus that has central England in thrall seems to have kept my patients away, so I'm browsing Wetpixel, again!

Tim,

I do think it's fair for Tom to expect more than instant noodles on an advertised luxury liveaboard and paying the prices charged by the organizer. Instant noodle has been indoctrined into Indonesian diet (much like spam was in the melanesian islands) by the sheer convenience of it. Certainly staying in homestays all over Indo on remote islands, I've had it more often than I like.

However, since he apparently didn't request for something different, it is a little difficult for the cooking staff to accomodate his tastes. I know when I get on board, my diet preferences are well established with the cook. In fact the cook is my best friend next to the cruise director. Now expecting Kobe beef steaks isn't reasonable but I'm sure Tom isn't requesting that. Fried food is an indonesian thing as well. I often ask for steamed veggies myself. If you don't try to ask, you won't get at all.

Tim,

I do think it's fair for Tom to expect more than instant noodles

So do I. I've got to reply to Tom's post.. there is so much in it that is wrong.. misleading.. untrue. What a waste of time!! I just hope I don't get slammed for correcting him. Coming soon.

DebF

I checked out you website, looks very interesting. Do you still have room for folks in 2009?

Yes. I have 6 trips (1 private). 3 are full. Check the info from City Seahorse Trips and email me privately from there.

My wife and I were on the Ondina for the next scheduled trip with Deb and Tony.

Our group had several excellent, well traveled photographers onboard and I never heard a negative comment. Goes to show you how a bad apple can spoil the barrel.

We found the trip to be exactly as advertised and it exceeded our expectations due primarily to the hard work of the excellent crew and to Deb's experience and attention for creating a "photo rich environment".

This was by far the best "photography oriented" dive trip that we've ever taken.