Canon 5D MkII, Ikelite and Liveview

Hi all,

Hoping somebody can help. I work on a dive boat and a guest has a new 5D MkII, it is driving us crazy, out of the water all modes work fine, manual, strobes, Tv, Av etc. Once we go in the water only liveview works, the camera will not take a picture when the shutter button is released in any mode other than liveview. Any ideas? We have pretty much run out, the only thing I have left to test tomorrow is AF and MF, we only tried in AF so far and I know normal modes and liveview have different AF systems, but I can't think why that would be affected. Anyway I realise I am new and the underwater users of the MkII will be few so far but I hope you guys/girls might have some suggestions.

Many thanks for your time, Scott.

In the "star" menu make sure "Live view function" is set to "stills+movie" that may help.

darren

Scott,

Has to be a menu setting. Somewhere in the manual it should tell you where to DISABLE Live View in all shooting modes. If Live View is active hitting the SET button will turn it on.

Also maybe not disabling the automatic screen blanking function is the culprit ? (As I write this I'm not sure if the 5D MK II has this function with the little sensor underneath the viewfinder?) But on a few other Canon dSLR models you need to make sure this is OFF again on one of the menu choices. SCRATCH THIS AS I DON'T SEE ANY SUCH SENSOR BUILT INTO THE 5D MK II VIEWFINDER.)

Just trying to think of what it could be. Hope you have the manual with you, because the answer's ALWAYS in the manual

Good luck!

dhaas

P.S. - Good one Darren! I was even just reading about the Stills & Movie option (somewhere!)

In the "star" menu make sure "Live view function" is set to "stills+movie" that may help.

darren

No that wasn't it, in "stills+movie" you have no exposure control at all,in "stills only" you do get some exposure control and a compensation scale that you can slide to over or under expose 2 stops but that is it.

But thanks for the very fast response.

Hi all,

 

Hoping somebody can help. I work on a dive boat and a guest has a new 5D MkII, it is driving us crazy, out of the water all modes work fine, manual, strobes, Tv, Av etc. Once we go in the water only liveview works, the camera will not take a picture when the shutter button is released in any mode other than liveview. Any ideas? We have pretty much run out, the only thing I have left to test tomorrow is AF and MF, we only tried in AF so far and I know normal modes and liveview have different AF systems, but I can't think why that would be affected. Anyway I realise I am new and the underwater users of the MkII will be few so far but I hope you guys/girls might have some suggestions.

 

Many thanks for your time, Scott.

It's the line "Once we go in the water only liveview works" that is a bit confusing. Do you mean...

A/ out of the housing, out of the water vs in the housing, in the water

or

B/ out of the water in the housing v in the water , in the housing

Scott,

 

Has to be a menu setting. Somewhere in the manual it should tell you where to DISABLE Live View in all shooting modes. If Live View is active hitting the SET button will turn it on.

 

Also maybe not disabling the automatic screen blanking function is the culprit ? (As I write this I'm not sure if the 5D MK II has this function with the little sensor underneath the viewfinder?) But on a few other Canon dSLR models you need to make sure this is OFF again on one of the menu choices. SCRATCH THIS AS I DON'T SEE ANY SUCH SENSOR BUILT INTO THE 5D MK II VIEWFINDER.)

 

Just trying to think of what it could be. Hope you have the manual with you, because the answer's ALWAYS in the manual

 

Good luck!

 

dhaas

 

P.S. - Good one Darren! I was even just reading about the Stills & Movie option (somewhere!)

Thanks dhass and photovan,

I am working my way through the 228 page manual as I type, gulp. We can disable the Liveview easily, the camera just won't do anything if you do, the only way you can get it to take a picture is in Liveview. The more I think about it the more I think it is an AF issue, I will work out if it has the custom function I have on my 1 Series cameras to take a picture before focus is confirmed and I'll try it in MF also.

Hi all,

 

Hoping somebody can help. I work on a dive boat and a guest has a new 5D MkII, it is driving us crazy, out of the water all modes work fine, manual, strobes, Tv, Av etc. Once we go in the water only liveview works, the camera will not take a picture when the shutter button is released in any mode other than liveview. Any ideas? We have pretty much run out, the only thing I have left to test tomorrow is AF and MF, we only tried in AF so far and I know normal modes and liveview have different AF systems, but I can't think why that would be affected. Anyway I realise I am new and the underwater users of the MkII will be few so far but I hope you guys/girls might have some suggestions.

 

Many thanks for your time, Scott.

The fact that it works fine above water but not below means that it is a problem with the LiveView/Print button on the housing. The button is probably set too deep. If you cannot fix that you can always disable LiveView in the menu ( 6th from left menu option --> Live View/Movie func.set ---> LV func. setting --> Disable )

HTH

Photovan,

the camera works in all functions and modes out of the housing, it works in all functions and modes in the housing before the dive, as soon as it goes in the water (in the housing!) it will only take a picture if you put it into liveview. You have very little control in liveview. It will go into all modes M,P,Tv and Av and you can adjust everything (underwater) but it will not fire.

AndreSmith,

Good idea but the button clearance is good, the LiveView/Print button works just fine, you can turn it on and off underwater the same as above, but the camera will not take a picture in any other mode. It meters in all the other modes but the second part of the shutterbutton press just does nothing. It exhibits all the symptoms of not achieving focus even when the AF point is placed on a high contrast subject. Didn't think to check the focus confirmation light in the viewfinder today though. Doh!

Thanks for all the ideas so far though. If I get it working tomorrow I will post, even if the answer is me being very stupid...........

Photovan,

the camera works in all functions and modes out of the housing, it works in all functions and modes in the housing before the dive, as soon as it goes in the water (in the housing!) it will only take a picture if you put it into liveview. You have very little control in liveview. It will go into all modes M,P,Tv and Av and you can adjust everything (underwater) but it will not fire.

Well then, looks like its back to your original answer... AF... what is the lens/port/dioptre configuration?

Maybe the lens is unable to focus using the SLR focusing, but in Live view it uses contrast on the sensor to focus and will shoot a pic even if the subject is out of focus.

Photovan,

the camera works in all functions and modes out of the housing, it works in all functions and modes in the housing before the dive, as soon as it goes in the water (in the housing!) it will only take a picture if you put it into liveview. You have very little control in liveview. It will go into all modes M,P,Tv and Av and you can adjust everything (underwater) but it will not fire.

 

AndreSmith,

Good idea but the button clearance is good, the LiveView/Print button works just fine, you can turn it on and off underwater the same as above, but the camera will not take a picture in any other mode. It meters in all the other modes but the second part of the shutterbutton press just does nothing. It exhibits all the symptoms of not achieving focus even when the AF point is placed on a high contrast subject. Didn't think to check the focus confirmation light in the viewfinder today though. Doh!

 

Thanks for all the ideas so far though. If I get it working tomorrow I will post, even if the answer is me being very stupid...........

OK I get it. Another thought:

Is this happenning with a dome port? What port and lens are you using? With a dome port the camera may be able to focus just fine above water but if the lens cannot focus close enough underwater on the virtual image it might not be possible to acheive focus.

Well then, looks like its back to your original answer... AF... what is the lens/port/dioptre configuration?

 

Maybe the lens is unable to focus using the SLR focusing, but in Live view it uses contrast on the sensor to focus and will shoot a pic even if the subject is out of focus.

OK I get it. Another thought:

Is this happenning with a dome port? What port and lens are you using? With a dome port the camera may be able to focus just fine above water but if the lens cannot focus close enough underwater on the virtual image it might not be possible to acheive focus.

looks like the planets are aligning...

Thanks guys, it looks like they are aligning. It is a domed port with a 24-105 f4 IS but I can probably use my 16-35 f2.8, twice the light might help the AF, but I will test it in MF first thing. Photovan, fantastic pictures and website, I see you have the 5D MkII and the 24-105, don't suppose you use them underwater? What port do you use with the 24-105?

Thanks guys, it looks like they are aligning. It is a domed port with a 24-105 f4 IS but I can probably use my 16-35 f2.8, twice the light might help the AF, but I will test it in MF first thing. Photovan, fantastic pictures and website, I see you have the 5D MkII and the 24-105, don't suppose you use them underwater? What port do you use with the 24-105?

That's it for sure. Live view is letting you shoot as it will shoot when things are out of focus, SLR mode it won't shoot if set to AF and One-Shot mode.

Scott, with that lens your client will definitely need a diopter (at least +3 probably +4 depending on dome size) to shoot in the water, without it the lens just will not focus close enough to focus on the virtual image created by the dome.

I would configure my kit with that lens behind my 23cm/9" Superdome, with 60mm of port extension and a +3 diopter.

Well we are all happy divers this morning, thanks guys. I put my 16-35 on and it works fine, it used to work with his 10-22 on the 20D so it should really. I also have a 12mm and 25mm extension tubes, do you think that would help the 24-105 work in the absence of a port extension and diopters? If we get chance later in the week it might be interesting to try.

Anyway thanks again, pretty cool really, I am on a live aboard in the Caribbean and you two are in Queensland and BC, I love the internet! Take care, Scott.

Well we are all happy divers this morning, thanks guys. I put my 16-35 on and it works fine, it used to work with his 10-22 on the 20D so it should really. I also have a 12mm and 25mm extension tubes, do you think that would help the 24-105 work in the absence of a port extension and diopters? If we get chance later in the week it might be interesting to try.

 

Anyway thanks again, pretty cool really, I am on a live aboard in the Caribbean and you two are in Queensland and BC, I love the internet! Take care, Scott.

Good news about the fix. Would like to hear about the extension tube test on the 24-105 should you get the chance.

Amigos,

Oy

This was so simple in that the Canon 24-105mm F4L lens only focuses to 1.48 ' and can't "SEE" the apparent image a dome port creates underwater without adding a +4 diopter (says so right on the Ikelite dome port ' lens chart.) I STAND CORRECTED IN THAT IS SAY THIS LENS IS TOO LARGE TO WORK IN IKELITE"S PORT BARREL. So were you guys pre-setting a focal length and not using any zoom ring? Or forcing it in? Eeeeekkkkkkkk..............

When couseling people on using ANY zoom lens underwater the first thing I check is lens specs on how close it will focus BY ITSELF. Most wide angle zooms focus closer than 12", the minimum for focus to be achieved UNDERWATER with no diopter.

For tighter frame shooting I prefer to not exceed 3X range zooms such as Nikon and Canon 17-55mm, 24-70mm, both Nikon or Canon 18-55mm choices, or the Sigma 17-70mm being a popular one. This eliminates actually NEEDING a diopter but many people will experiment and add a mild one (+2) to slightly improve edge sharpness especially at the wide angle setting.

Glad your customer is back shooting!

dhaas

Thanks dhass,

It might say that but the port is old and it is not my gear, I am very experienced with my own gear above water but only play with P&S's below it. I have assisted many underwater pros along the way but really only as support, never with equipment advice. I never claim to be an underwater specialist. I am glad I was on the right track with my initial post and a really big thanks to the guys who did help.

If I get to test the extension tube later I will post the results.

Once again thanks to all who helped. Scott.

Amigos,

Oy

This was so simple in that the Canon 24-105mm F4L lens only focuses to 1.48 ' and can't "SEE" the apparent image a dome port creates underwater without adding a +4 diopter (says so right on the Ikelite dome port ' lens chart.)

When counseling people on using ANY zoom lens underwater the first thing I check is lens specs on how close it will focus BY ITSELF. Most wide angle zooms focus closer than 12", the minimum for focus to be achieved UNDERWATER with no diopter.

Agreed. But would you have come to the conclusion that the client was using a 24-105 from Scott's initial question, which actually lead us toward an issue with Live View shooting?

For tighter frame shooting I prefer to not exceed 3X range zooms such as Nikon and Canon 17-55mm, 24-70mm, both Nikon or Canon 18-55mm choices, or the Sigma 17-70mm being a popular one. This eliminates actually NEEDING a diopter but many people will experiment and add a mild one (+2) to slightly improve edge sharpness especially at the wide angle setting.

Good info, but too bad the only lens you list here that actually works on a 5dmkii is the Canon 24-70

Glad your customer is back shooting!

dhaas

I'm sure he'll thank you... amazing how fast things can get sorted isn't it

Darren,

No offense meant, just trying to liven up sometimes boring discussions

Yep, if he would have specified lens I might have asked about diopter as I get this all the time. People can shoot a test shot ABOVE water where ANY port is simply a window then once below the lens racks back and forth endlessly trying to achieve some focus lock

Same goes for FX sensor versus DX (or APS-C) as lens choices. You are right that some I mentioned are strictly APS-C. Minimum focus of 12" for use behind a dome port still applies and I see it all the time posted here and other forums. The simplest dome port rule and it is largely mis-understood and ignored.....Just makes me sad when folks are out in the field frustrated over something so simple....Or maybe I'm showing my age in the underwater photography world!

All in fun.....

dhaas

P.S. - Darren, since you are one of the FEW I know actually shooting a 5D MK II underwater do you have any video clips posted anywhere we can see? I and many others are likely curious Even compressed video!

I'd also like to hear how you are using it, such as simply pressing the AF On button to lock focus with a wide lens (Fisheye for DOF?) then recording shots? Stop, re-focus, roll video, etc. Inquiring minds want to know!

Darren, No offense meant, just trying to liven up sometimes boring discussions .... All in fun.....

Well, there you go, and I thought you were just being a condescending old b@#$%*d!

P.S. - Darren, since you are one of the FEW I know actually shooting a 5D MK II underwater....

Sorry mate that's all smoke 'n' mirrors -- no housing yet

...do you have any video clips posted anywhere we can see? I and many others are likely curious Even compressed video!

well kind-of underwater.... the subjects were, the camera was not. Here you can have a look at it on Vimeo. (thanks for the plug)

I'd also like to hear how you are using it, such as simply pressing the AF On button to lock focus with a wide lens (Fisheye for DOF?) then recording shots? Stop, re-focus, roll video, etc. Inquiring minds want to know!

Well for those that missed it, the other day...

I jammed my 5dmkii into my 1dsmkii housing with polystyrene and gaffa tape. Used my 24mm 2.8, manually focused on a theoretical (read guessed) hyperfocal distance, buttoned-on, closed the housing and jumped in the pool 'til it got to it's 4GB limit (14mins 29secs of full HD) and shut off. I've been meaning to try this again, this time jumping in with the 1dsmkii in the housing, focusing on a subject at some average distance, jumping out and, leaving the focus on that point, putting that lens onto the 5dmkii without changing focus, removing the 1dsmkii from the housing, jamming the 5dmkii back in to the 1dsmkii housing with foam and gaffa tape, buttoning -on, closing the housing and jumping in.

or I could wait for my housing and do exactly what I planned.... choose a wide lens> LIVE View on> AF on > Exposure lock if needed> Exposure comp if needed>button on

Jean's Aquatica housing looks like a great implementaion of video, waiting to see the Seacam alternative. The Aussie Dollar (south pacific peso) ain't great at the moment....