HELP: Do I need a DSLR?

I am completely new to DSLR so i dont have to factor in owning any lenses and such. The fact that i am buying into a long term system is what makes it a bigger decision.

Last year I had to make the decision whether to stay with a P/S or move up to a DSLR system. I have Canon 10D, 30D, 50D, rebel 450D camera bodies and probably 10 very good Canon lenses already. However none of my Canon lenses were optimal for UW so I would have had to purchase a Tokina 10-17 and a Canon 100mm macro (and a new camera body because I want the ability to shoot video). I configured many different DSLR systems from different housing manufacturers and I kept coming up with a price of $7000-$9000 for the DSLR UW system. Given the cost and travel 'pain' I decided to stick with an upgraded P/S for now. I bought a Canon G10, FIX housing, Fisheye port, macro adapter, and S&S YS-110A for about $3000. We can fit both mine and my wife's UW systems into a carry-on bag, and it has the capability of taking great photos.

If I was starting from scratch and decided to go the DSLR route, I would probably go with the Canon T2i body and Nauticam housing.

If I was starting from scratch and decided to go the DSLR route, I would probably go with the Canon T2i body and Nauticam housing.

Hmmm, the T2i squeezes 18 MP on a APS-C sensor... Is this a good thing and would it work???

It would be interesting to see how she performs under water.

The price of 7000-9000$ you estimated for a new and complete DSLR rig is (unfortunatly) realistic,

a used and well maintained rig will be about 25-50% off that horrific sum.

Chris

Hmmm, the T2i squeezes 18 MP on a APS-C sensor... Is this a good thing and would it work???

It would be interesting to see how she performs under water.

 

The price of 7000-9000$ you estimated for a new and complete DSLR rig is (unfortunatly) realistic,

a used and well maintained rig will be about 25-50% off that horrific sum.

 

Chris

The Canon 7D has the same pixel density and I haven't heard anything negative about it's image quality at reasonable ISO levels. Unless you shoot a lot of natural lit low light photos UW (which is not very common) high ISO noise performance is not that high a priority for UW camera since most shots are strobe lit. I would recommend the t2i over the 7D simply because it costs half as much and there will be a plentiful supply of t2is on the used market to purchase as a backup camera body (since the housing and ports will cost 4-5 times what the camera body costs). And the body is slightly smaller and lighter which allows for smaller/lighter housing as well.

ok i just got back from best buy a few hours ago. I was playing around with the D90, D5000, Canon T2i, and Canon 50D. I really think i like the Nikon D90. It felt really solid in my hands and i loved how easy it was to change camera settings. What would be the best place to look into buying one? Ebay? Wait for a used one to pop out? Just go to best buy or ritz photo? Thanks for the help.

Max

Not sure where you are in the world but B&H has it listed for $849. Best Buy is usually more money.

Have fun Max. Don't forget cards and an extra battery.

Cheers,

Steve

Thanks steve. What is the consensus on buying refurbished camera bodies or used camera bodies from amazon etc.? would save a couple hundred to put toward glass

malley 1717,

i am glad that you liked the D90 and i am sure hat you won't be disappointed.

Refurbished cameras are basically cameras they got back due a warranty issue and repaired professionally by the manufacturer.

I prefer to have a new camera rather than one who was already broken, opened again and fixed professionaly.

Some hints about the D90:

1. i would think twice to get (for above water) the D90 bundled with the 18-105mm VR zoom as i am not very satisfied with the quality of the lens.

The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 18-200mm 1:3.5-5.6GII ED, AF-S DX NIKKOR 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR. or the cheap but excellent AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II

2. For underwater, the Tokina 10-17mm fisheye or the 11-16mm wide angle and a 60mm or 105mm macro and your lens bag is complete

3. The battery last very long, i never run out of battery power

4. Get the fastest card - minimum Class6 - you can get

5. If you would like to buy the Ikelite housing consider that you have to use electrical triggered strobe(s) as the internal strobe will no open fully and not fire

Also make sure that you get the new housing with 4 port locks and not the "old" one with only 2.

Chris

<br />ok i just got back from best buy a few hours ago. I was playing around with the D90, D5000, Canon T2i, and Canon 50D. I really think i like the Nikon D90. It felt really solid in my hands and i loved how easy it was to change camera settings. What would be the best place to look into buying one? Ebay? Wait for a used one to pop out? Just go to best buy or ritz photo? Thanks for the help.<br /><br />Max<br />

good choice... i'm using D90 too..

I have some situation like you before...What i do is get a use set frist "save money", try out and see i'm comfortable with u/w DSLR or not. If u really like it, love it and only get your dream set like what i'm now

Nauticam housing, 8.5" dome (Zen 4" dome may be soon), Flat port, 2 SnS 110a strobe, Stix Floats with UCLS 8" x 2pcs and 5" x 2pcs ams, focus light, thinkTank and ect...

D90 camera, tokina 10-17, 105mmVR + (67mm +6 close up lens)

Right now I have the ikelite DS-160 so I would almost surely get te ikelite. I have had good expirences with them. Thanks for the advice on lenses. How should I choose between te 60 and 105 mm macro lenses. Thanks

In this case get the Ikelite housing and another DS-160 (or maybe the "Video"strobe DS-161) and a Y cable.

Some dealers sell the housing with the tray and 2 handles while the strobe package including the Ikelite ball arm.

The included Ikelite ball arm is of good quality but with a lenght of 6'' a bit short so you may get a additional 8'' elements and a clamp

per arm to have maximum flexibility positioning your strobe(s). Check what will be more economic for you, upgrading the Ikelite arms or

start from scratch with TLC or ULCS arms.

The discussions about 60 or 105mm macro lenses are endless and are influenced by personal taste, habits and dive locations.

Basically the only difference is the distance to the object as the 105 is almost the double "tele" as the 60mm.

This has some vantages and some disadavntages.

105mm macro (min focus distance 1 ft to get 1:1)

+ better for shy creatures as you can stay further away from them and they may stay in pose

+ the ideal lens for calm, clear waters and shy critters

- more difficult to handle in surge or current to his focal lengt, more difficult to view object and more prone to blurry pics due movement

- may be too distant to object in bad viz as it will need too much "water" inbetween lens and object

60mm macro (min focus distance 0.6 ft to get 1.1)

+ easier to handle in surge or current

+ theoretically better image quality in low viz due less "water" in between

- closer focus distance will spoke some fishes away

I would suggest to start with the AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm F2.8G ED as it is more easy to use as the 105mm and cheaper to.

The "old" AF Micro Nikkor 105mm 2.8D is discontinued and very difficult to find, if you find one in good conditions

and have some spare $$$ buy it, it's a exceptional lens.

Stay away of the new 105mm VR lens, many have problems using this lens under water due focussing and hunting issues and

many photographers go back to the "old" 105mm making it really hard to find and pricy too.

Here is some discussion about the 105mm VR lens: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/nikon-nic...5-mm-micro.html

I suggest to get quotes for the whole package at specialized uw-cam dealers as the provide usually a superior service as the big internet shops and they have the knowhow to guarantee

that the setup they suggest will work.

Chris

P.S. i just discovered that Reef Photo is selling the Tokina 100 macro. Tokina makes very well priced and sturdy metal lenses and i always was wondering why nobody is using this lens as she get

very good reviews. This may be a solution to save some $$$.

Hmmm, the T2i squeezes 18 MP on a APS-C sensor... Is this a good thing and would it work???

It would be interesting to see how she performs under water.

 

The price of 7000-9000$ you estimated for a new and complete DSLR rig is (unfortunatly) realistic,

a used and well maintained rig will be about 25-50% off that horrific sum.

 

Chris

Just for fun I configured a Canon T2i/Nauticam system with the Canon 60mm macro and the Tokina 10-17 FE

Canon T2i (Nauticam Housing) 60mm macro, 10-17 FE

Canon T2i camera body $800

Canon EF 60mm f2.8 macro lens $392

Tokina 10-17 FE lens $580

Nauticam Housing $2300

Nauticam Macro Port C60 $460

Nauticam focus gear C60-F $155

Zen DP-100 100mm dome port $900

Nauticam zoom gear TC1017-Z $135

ULCS BA-TG T-groove adapter (2) $48

Total $5788

+ 7% sales tax $6193

This assumes I use my current dual S&S YS-110As, sync cords, ULCS arms/clamps. If you add those pieces/parts ($1800) the total is back to..... $7993. Seems like nothing changes. However if I was in the business of rationalizing this (hobby) I could say it would really 'only' cost $6193 minus the price I could sell my current Canon G10/FIX housing for. That makes it closer to 'only' $5000. Quick! Where's my credit card.....

Thanks for answering all of my question so quickly, thoroughly, and accurately. I am mostly looking into the Ikelite housing because of the lower cost, because i already have an ikelite strobe, and because i have had a good experience with ikelite with my G10 setup. My question has to do with the port system. It seems like the standard port system is about half the cost of the modular port system. What is the main difference and which would you recommend? thanks

Max

Max,

Macro:

Do you plan to dive in clear water? If then get an AF-105-VR and the single port for it. If not get the 60MM and the port for it. Possibly the new 85 is a good compromise but I havn't used it.

Wa:

Tonika 10/17 in a dome

Don't confuse GP land lenses with underwater lenses

The sense of the Ikelite modular port is that you can build with a few port rings your port, without buying several dedicatet ports.

Our modular port system allows you to build a port out of universal components to accommodate a variety of macro, zoom, and wide-angle lenses. The interchangeable port bodies and extensions combine to create endless combinations for maximum versatility and performance.

This system can become also handy when you would like to use a lens where no dedicated port is available and or you like to experiment with various lenses.

I personally prefere to have as less ways where the cameras natural enemy called water could enter the housing and the idea to have 1-3 more o-rings is frightening me a bit.

I would suggest that you buy the dedicated ports for the lenses you use.

Chris

I just had fun and made a shopping list for a Ikelite D90 rig:

$$899.95$$$D90 Body

$1329.95$$$D90 Housing Ikelite

$$649.95$$$Tokina ATX-116 PRO DX 11-16mm

$$599.95$$$Nikon AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm f2.8G ED

$$849.95$$$Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-200 F3,4-5,6 ED VR II (for land use)

$$140.00$$$Ikelite flat port for Nikon 60mm micro nikkor (approx)

$$190.00$$$Ikelite 6'' domeport for Tokina 11-17mm (approx)

$1139.95$$$Ikelite DS-161 Strobe package with dual cord

$$$94.95$$$Ikelite Smart Charger for Strobe

$$371.50$$$ULCS 8'' and 5'' arms with 3 clamps ( 185.75 x 2, one for each side)

$$$47.90$$$ULCS base adapter for Ikelite quick release handle ( 23.95 x 2, one for each side)

$$$45.90$$$ULCS strobe adapter for Ikelite DS strobes ( 22.95 x 2, one for each strobe)

$6359.95 $$$Total

Consider that you will get 1 Strobe, 2 double segment ULCS arms and 1 zoom lens for above water use...

Thanks for scaring me chris...

Is there any practical difference between the 6" and 8" ports?

Off to rummage through my possessions and list them on ebay...

also, another question

what is the difference between (for example) the 60 mm macro lens and an 18-105 lens set at 60 (or 105)?

THANKS

Max

also, another question

 

what is the difference between (for example) the 60 mm macro lens and an 18-105 lens set at 60 (or 105)?

 

THANKS

 

 

Max

There are a number of factors to consider.

First: prime lens versus zoom lens: Prime lenses generally provide better optics because they are simpler. Zoom lenses have more complex internal element/group configurations which results in 'compromised' optics over the zoom range. Most macro lenses are considered to be among the optically sharpest lenses within a manufacturers lens product line.

Second: More importantly for a macro application, macro lenses usually have a shorter minimal focal distance than other lenses. This allows a higher magnification factor and magnification factor is generally what you're most interested in when shooting macro.

Third: For the UW macro application it's highly advantageous to have a lens with internal focus mechanism. Ie, the lens does not extend/retract when focusing. This allows the lens port length to be optimized (shortened). This helps because it allows you to get closer to your subject. Same thing applies to zoom lenses that extend/retract. It requires a bigger/longer port to allow the lens to extend.

Fourth: Macro lenses are generally optimized for a flat focal plane across the whole lens (corner to corner) whereas non macro lenses tend to have a more arced focal plane (resulting in softer corners).

Check out this Canon lens chart (I'm sure Nikon has something similar). Canon used to include the magnification factor in this lens chart. Not sure why they removed that column. http://www.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/lens/Lens...r_chart_new.pdf

Thanks onewolf. thats really helpful. I figured it had something to do with being able to focus at closer ranges, but i hadnt thought about the other points you made.

Thanks for scaring me chris...

You should not be scared, but you should see the truth... Actually the price for a complete Rig including camera, strobe, lenses is not so bad.... The given price is "as listed" and you may get some discount on it.

Continuing with your G10 will cost you ways less and it's your decision if 4000$ will make so much better photos. or you may buy

a used housing/rig to save some $$$.

I have the port for the 18-105mm but almost never use it as i find the 18-105mm is quite useless as

the lens distorts ugly on 18-24mm and vignetting and tele lenses are not very useful for underwater images.

Chris

Many of us have asked the same questions. Last year I moved up to DSLR from P&S. So glad I did. Here is a thread from last year on the D90 that has a lot of information about this camera, lens and housing questions. I hope this link takes you there.

http://wetpixel.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t31724.html

Good luck with your search and decision.

DiverPam