SOPA

The internet downloaded quality is nowhere near BluRay.

Actually it is "near" Blu-ray quality. OK, it isn't 1080p, but a large proportion of (the more recently created) content is 720p with 5.1 sound. That's the same as (most) HD broadcast quality and higher than DVD quality. If you're downloading TV shows, you'll be getting the same quality as if you watched them "live". If you wanted Blu-ray quality for those same shows you'd be waiting 12 months to 3 years for the BDs to be released.

Even I complain why Amazon charges more for a .Mobi vs a paperback, but if I want that book, I either pay for it or live without it. I wouldn't support stealing because I respect creative works.

This really shows the book publishers are fools. For a physical book, they only make money when it is first sold. The author only gets royalty when the physical book is first sold. That book may change hands (perfectly legally) hundreds of times after the first sale and neither the publisher nor the author get a single cent. An eBook on the other hand can only ever be sold once legally as there is no way to legally transfer ownership of an eBook. If 100 people want the eBook they each have to buy it (or get an illegal copy). Given production and distribution costs of an eBook are significantly lower, an eBook should be way cheaper. Maybe one day they will wake up.

Actually it is "near" Blu-ray quality. OK, it isn't 1080p, but a large proportion of (the more recently created) content is 720p with 5.1 sound. That's the same as (most) HD broadcast quality and higher than DVD quality. If you're downloading TV shows, you'll be getting the same quality as if you watched them "live". If you wanted Blu-ray quality for those same shows you'd be waiting 12 months to 3 years for the BDs to be released.

Actually not. Broadcast 1080p is about 16-19mbps MPEG2, iTunes 720p HD is about 4mbps MPEG4. Even with 2x efficiency, it's not the same quality by quite a bit. Maybe Oz TV uses 720p but US uses 1080i except for some sport channels which use 720p60. Not ready for a bigger screen for my tastes.

For major releases, BD is now usually about 3-4 mths, in response to piracy. BBC released the Frozen Planet the week it finished broadcasting. It must be different in Oz, even though you guys got Frozen Planet first!

This really shows the book publishers are fools. For a physical book, they only make money when it is first sold. The author only gets royalty when the physical book is first sold. That book may change hands (perfectly legally) hundreds of times after the first sale and neither the publisher nor the author get a single cent. An eBook on the other hand can only ever be sold once legally as there is no way to legally transfer ownership of an eBook. If 100 people want the eBook they each have to buy it (or get an illegal copy). Given production and distribution costs of an eBook are significantly lower, an eBook should be way cheaper. Maybe one day they will wake up.

Those hundreds of uses might happen over decades.

An e-book can be (and is) perfectly copied and handed round to tens of thousands inside hours, revenue loss wise its no competition. Your model only works if piracy can be kept to relatively small numbers which unfortunately isnt happening yet.

E-books unfortunately are almost perfect for piracy due to their small size and ease in making perfect copies.

Otara

Actually not. Broadcast 1080p is about 16-19mbps MPEG2, iTunes 720p HD is about 4mbps MPEG4. Even with 2x efficiency, it's not the same quality by quite a bit. Maybe Oz TV uses 720p but US uses 1080i except for some sport channels which use 720p60. Not ready for a bigger screen for my tastes.

I'll have to check again. Last time I looked most (recent) TV shows on HD channels here in Oz are only broadcast in 720p. So, at least for us, iTunes 720p is just as good. They can and do broadcast 1080p but it doesn't seem to be the norm - at least last time I checked.

For major releases, BD is now usually about 3-4 mths, in response to piracy. BBC released the Frozen Planet the week it finished broadcasting. It must be different in Oz, even though you guys got Frozen Planet first!

I was taking TV series (and I thought Cor was, too). They won't put out the DVD or BD until after the season ends which will be at least 9 months after the first episode aired - and in many cases even longer than that.

Those hundreds of uses might happen over decades.

Or less. I know people that buy a book and then sell/give it to a second-hand book shop/op shop after they read it. You don't need many people doing that for it to add up. Publisher/Author gets nothing.

An e-book can be (and is) perfectly copied and handed round to tens of thousands inside hours, revenue loss wise its no competition. Your model only works if piracy can be kept to relatively small numbers which unfortunately isnt happening yet.

 

E-books unfortunately are almost perfect for piracy due to their small size and ease in making perfect copies.

That is all true, but artificially inflating the price will do nothing to stop piracy. Perhaps if they weren't being so greedy more people would be prepared to pay for their eBooks.

I know if I have a choice between buying a book second-hand for $5 or an eBook of the same for $15, I'll go for the second-hand book. I have made that choice often. I could even sell the book after I've finished with it and so my outlay was even less.

As has already been discussed, people will pirate stuff no matter what they do - but why punish the honest people?

I'll have to check again. Last time I looked most (recent) TV shows on HD channels here in Oz are only broadcast in 720p. So, at least for us, iTunes 720p is just as good. They can and do broadcast 1080p but it doesn't seem to be the norm - at least last time I checked.

 

 

I was taking TV series (and I thought Cor was, too). They won't put out the DVD or BD until after the season ends which will be at least 9 months after the first episode aired - and in many cases even longer than that.

Actually I had a typo. Broadcast HD is 1080i, not 1080p. Only cable hits 1080p.

As for value, realize that content providers are out to make money, and are not volunteer entertainers. One can fault them for pricing it too high, but then again that's their choice and again the entrenched business model is what it is. The consumer's choice is to either pay or not. Internet piracy just made it easier not to pay and still get the product. Content producers make a product that is being stolen, so they have the moral and legal high ground. To say that they ought to charge less for their product because it would appease some of the stealers is sorta warped to me. I guess I was brought up wrong!

Dropping prices to accede to piracy is ridiculous to me, since such product isn't a "right" but a luxury. On the other hand, dropping prices to accede to lack of customers, who choose not to buy is another matter. It's a complicated distinction.

That said, as Cor points out, the reality is too many people don't seem to care complicated distinctions!

Dropping prices to accede to piracy is ridiculous to me, since such product isn't a "right" but a luxury. On the other hand, dropping prices to accede to lack of customers, who choose not to buy is another matter. It's a complicated distinction.

That said, as Cor points out, the reality is too many people don't seem to care complicated distinctions!

Agree 100%, together with many other points you raised earlier. I think if they checked the price structure a bit, they might find elasticity of demand could increase sales. I know I will often not think twice about buying some things (movies/tv shows/books) when they are on sale at iTunes, but not worth it to me at regular prices. Though I did buy the Steve Jobs bio immediately at full price

Agree 100%, together with many other points you raised earlier. I think if they checked the price structure a bit, they might find elasticity of demand could increase sales. I know I will often not think twice about buying some things (movies/tv shows/books) when they are on sale at iTunes, but not worth it to me at regular prices. Though I did buy the Steve Jobs bio immediately at full price

Dropping prices might move more product but may also lower profit margins. I don't think the sales guys are that dumb that they can't estimate optimal pricing.

If only the content industry actually had competition instead of a government sanctioned monolopy. They get away with this because RIAA has a monopoly and can set prices at whatever they want. This means they can include costs that no longer exist, overcharge on certain costs, etc, with the goal to protect _historical income levels_. No matter if those historical income levels are no longer realistic. It's all about money and protecting the balance sheets of Big Media, often at the detriment of artists (who are the ones we really should care about).

The result of the above is that price levels are most likely above (maybe even significantly above) what the market actually can bear. And consumers are not dumb, they can tell when something is fishy. In some cases this is obvious (ebooks that are more expensive than printed books), in some cases it's not so obvious.

Maybe what we're seeing is the slow marginalization of Big Media, similar to what is happening to the printed news media. Desperate needs lead to desperate deeds.

If only the content industry actually had competition instead of a government sanctioned monolopy. They get away with this because RIAA has a monopoly and can set prices at whatever they want. This means they can include costs that no longer exist, overcharge on certain costs, etc, with the goal to protect _historical income levels_. No matter if those historical income levels are no longer realistic. It's all about money and protecting the balance sheets of Big Media, often at the detriment of artists (who are the ones we really should care about).

 

The result of the above is that price levels are most likely above (maybe even significantly above) what the market actually can bear. And consumers are not dumb, they can tell when something is fishy. In some cases this is obvious (ebooks that are more expensive than printed books), in some cases it's not so obvious.

 

Maybe what we're seeing is the slow marginalization of Big Media, similar to what is happening to the printed news media. Desperate needs lead to desperate deeds.

I don't see the freebie downloaders giving a damn about the artists either.

It's really pointless to complain about 'Big Old Media' because they are simply being replaced by other 'Big New Media' companies like Google, Amazon, Apple, and Facebook. In some respects the control these 'New Media' companies have is even is even more pervasive than 'OldMedia'. If anything the inequities are bigger than ever.

Pretty naive to somehow think the average artist is somehow going to benefit; just because it's easier to either publish, download, and even steal content.

I don't think the sales guys are that dumb that they can't estimate optimal pricing.

You would be surprised

Actually I had a typo. Broadcast HD is 1080i, not 1080p. Only cable hits 1080p.

I checked what we have here. In Sydney we have 5 free-to-air HD channels. Two are 720p and 3 are 1080i.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that the content they show is 1080i or even 720p. While I was checking, one of the 1080i channels was playing an episode of "M*A*S*H". I had to wonder if the source material was equivalent to 1080i or even 720p and they were just upscaling for broadcast.

Now now ATJ, kinda unfair to demand HD when it was shot on video in the 70-90s, no? That said, some TV shows were shot on film so remastering isn't out of the question but it'd have to be pretty big!

The new programs are all HD now and the quality isn't the same as cable. However, all the streaming/download services are growing, so I may have to eat my words in a few years.

This really shows the book publishers are fools. For a physical book, they only make money when it is first sold. The author only gets royalty when the physical book is first sold. That book may change hands (perfectly legally) hundreds of times after the first sale and neither the publisher nor the author get a single cent. An eBook on the other hand can only ever be sold once legally as there is no way to legally transfer ownership of an eBook. If 100 people want the eBook they each have to buy it (or get an illegal copy). Given production and distribution costs of an eBook are significantly lower, an eBook should be way cheaper. Maybe one day they will wake up.

Maybe there is more than foolhardiness at work here....are ebooks not more convenient than carrying around paper based editions? Should that convenience be reflected in the price? And perhaps the price of an ebook is set, knowing that some will share and share their ebooks with the many...charging all for the actions of some to ensure the revenue earned reflects the infringing?

Secondly, the price of a book isn't really based on paper, bindings or pixels. Its the value of the information contained therein....is that what makes something have monetary value, something worth paying for? After all, if something has no value, don't we all look elsewhere and buy something else? Camera kit, cars, houses...food...the information in books...we can choose.

And besides, copyright gives artists a monopoly to exploit their works they see fit. This can include cheap, middle ground or reassuringly expensive. We can buy, or not...if the masses stay away the price will fall...all the time plenty are handing over their cash the market will be sustained.

Maybe there is more than foolhardiness at work here....are ebooks not more convenient than carrying around paper based editions? Should that convenience be reflected in the price? And perhaps the price of an ebook is set, knowing that some will share and share their ebooks with the many...charging all for the actions of some to ensure the revenue earned reflects the infringing?

 

Secondly, the price of a book isn't really based on paper, bindings or pixels. Its the value of the information contained therein....is that what makes something have monetary value, something worth paying for? After all, if something has no value, don't we all look elsewhere and buy something else? Camera kit, cars, houses...food...the information in books...we can choose.

 

And besides, copyright gives artists a monopoly to exploit their works they see fit. This can include cheap, middle ground or reassuringly expensive. We can buy, or not...if the masses stay away the price will fall...all the time plenty are handing over their cash the market will be sustained.

I think Kindle ebooks have DRM, but that can be removed easily nowadays. So technically sharing or resale isn't an option.

Oh noes! He mentioned DRM... must....not....comment....

Well DRM is bad... and good. Having a free file on the internet is how piracy works, because distribution is too easy. Of course we know how much of a pain a DRM file is!

Somewhat relevant to this discussion. It's pretty much undisputed that over the years the content industry has called every new innovation a death blow to the industry. From TV, to Cable, to VCR, to DVR, you name it, the industry opposed it.

Somewhat relevant to this discussion. It's pretty much undisputed that over the years the content industry has called every new innovation a death blow to the industry. From TV, to Cable, to VCR, to DVR, you name it, the industry opposed it.

Well they are death blows in the sense that they are death blows to pre-existing business models. But it's not only media, it's every industry- ranging from dive stores to businesses like mine. So it's 'natural' to cry fowl when someone moves the goal posts so that things are no longer how they were, and for vested interests to try and protect their turf. I have not met an individual or seen an industry that does not behave that way. Even the tech industry has gone through this - think IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook.........

We all have to keep dancing to stay viable. And we all have to keep dancing to compete and to stop people from stealing our products and ideas...... This whole discussion can be framed that way - continuously coming up with new ways to stop people from stealing one's livelihood and / or adapting to compete.

We are all living Alvin Toffler's 'Future Shock' just at a faster rate than even he anticipated.