Ikelite + 300D / took it to the pool / macro

Hello alltogether,

I just came back from the pool and did some macro tests.

Some of you might remember my troubles in finding one single port to fit both my canon 50mm macro lens and the lens plus the canon lifesize converter.

If not have a look here:

http://www.wetpixel.com/modules.php?op=mod...iewtopic&t=4234

Well after assembling my gear I got a compact but quite heavy rig (appr. 7kg). Under water it is quite negative (with my DS-50). If I am right it gets more negative the deeper I go? If thats the case I try it next time without the lead in the base.

Handling was easy and especialy the very sensible shutter lever makes me happy. You have total control about pressing the release button.

Because it was my first time down there with an SLR housing I found it difficult to see and compose the image. The viewfinder of the 300D is already quite small on land but under water its worse... I have to get used to it and maybe invest into a new mask (but thats a different thread).

I set the camera to M-mode, shutter to 250 and F10.

It took me some shots to find the right flash settings which seemed right on the lcd. On land now I see that on step more on the flash would have been better. But thats what testing is for, isn´t it.

I attached two shoots to show that both of my macro lenses/combinations work very well in the longer port that I choosed. Because of the 1.6 crop factor of the 300D I don´t have any vignetting when the 50mm is in the port alone.

I AM HAPPY!

Next time I try the 18-55mm kit lens and the dome port but shooting "wide" in the pool is like shooting the bluer sky :wink:

I you have any question regarding Ikes housing fire them at me. I am more then happy to answer anything I can...

Have a good time!!!

Christian

PS: I can´t wait to take my baby into the sea...6 days left...

PPS: The seashells of course were collected on the beach not while diving...

Hello Christian

I have also ordered that housing and cant wait to get started.

As the Digital 300D is so convenient to shoot in automatic mode.

how do you actually know what setting to use. Is it purely

by trial and error or are there any general recommendations ?

Sorry for this maybe silly question but I am so eager to get started

that I want to know everything

Thanks and good luck

Do not use your camera in Program mode. You lose any control over exposure values.

Try 1/60 and f/22 and adjust your strobe to subject distance or strobe power control (must have the manual controller).

If the frame is being lit entirely by strobe, the shutter speed won't make any difference, but your aperture will alter depth of field greatly in macro photography.

Hello alltogether,

 

 

Well after assembling my gear I got a compact but quite heavy rig (appr. 7kg). Under water it is quite negative (with my DS-50). If I am right it gets more negative the deeper I go? If thats the case I try it next time without the lead in the base.

The housing is not compressible so it should not get negative with depth. I know one long time film shooter who recommends getting rid of the lead base from Ike housings.

I set the camera to M-mode, shutter to 250 and F10.  

It took me some shots to find the right flash settings which seemed right on the lcd. On land now I see that on step more on the flash would have been better. But thats what testing is for, isn´t it.

The camera's max flash sync speed is 1/200. I know that you can't get shutter speed faster than that when you pop the internal flash. Don't know what happens with an external strobe. I'm a little surprised that the camera will let you use that shutter speed and if it did I'm surprised that your pics came out evenly lit.

Herb,

When all of the pins are not hooked up, the camera doesn't know that a flash is attached. Sometimes the camera can be "tricked" this way if it still fires a flash sync signal when the shutter release goes.

If the flash fires fast enough, you can sometimes sneak it in between the curtain passes.

So...at least for this combo - I'd say that 1/250th flash sync in manual can be done. Pretty cool!

FWIW, the S2 can be bumped up 1/2 a stop with this technique when the flash is connected via the PC sync port...

Cheers

James

Herb,

 

When all of the pins are not hooked up, the camera doesn't know that a flash is attached.  Sometimes the camera can be "tricked" this way if it still fires a flash sync signal when the shutter release goes.

 

If the flash fires fast enough, you can sometimes sneak it in between the curtain passes.  

 

So...at least for this combo - I'd say that 1/250th flash sync in manual can be done.  Pretty cool!

 

FWIW, the S2 can be bumped up 1/2 a stop with this technique when the flash is connected via the PC sync port...

 

Cheers

James

Thanks James. That is good news. The max flash sync speed is limited by the speed of the curtains. Above it's max sync speed the shutter is not complete open during the exposure: think of a slit moving across the image sensor. So a fast strobe pulse will only expose part of the sensor. A very long strobe pulse can expose the whole sensor but uses much more power for the same exposure. I doubt the latter case is true. Canon is probably a little conservative in their max sync rating and setting. Looks like I have to do some experiments.

Alex mustard did some experimenting with this, and found the D100 could be bumped as well. Routinely shoot it faster than its recomended 1/180th max sync when trying to get black backgrounds in macro mode.

I start to get a slight masking at 1/250th, but have no problem at 1/200th.

I went to the pool again... this time with the 15-55mm lens and the dome port. I found it more difficult to get well exposed pictures with this setup. I mostly had masking of the flash even at 1/60, f8-10 and iso200. I guess the range of my DS-50 isn´t wide enough for 18mm (makes 28mm with the rebel)... :-( even at distances of 3-4 meters.

@lawrence1131:

I don't shot auto mode. I will try M-mode from the start to get comfortable with my flash settings.

@scorpio_fish:

Yes, I tried those settings you mentioned but I guess those aren´t that good for wider angels?! I try again with the macro setup.

@herbko:

I removed the weight and the housing is still slightly (but far less than with the weight) negative. The buoancy is good BUT now its centerweight is the strobe and deppending on how I aimed this was not very comfortable. The hosuing tended to turn around because of the strobes weight. I guess a weight in between no weight and the supplied one would be perfect... Perhabs I can sort something out.

@herb and james:

Yes, you are right I am not limited to 1/200. I even tried 1/320. Find a sample attached (I left the exif intact). I am not sure if the masking at the lower border is because of the sync speed or my strobe placement?! I will try this again also with macro setup.

I even tried ISO400 settings. Does anyone of you uses these underwater? This should bump the possible f-stops significant?!

For my first real dives I will go for the 50mm macro lens only. I guess this is the most simple start for me to get decent pictures and get used to my system.

Chris

PS: Both pictures are unaltered, only downsized.

@herbko:

I removed the weight and the housing is still slightly (but far less than with the weight) negative. The buoancy is good BUT now its centerweight is the strobe and deppending on how I aimed this was not very comfortable. The hosuing tended to turn around because of the strobes weight. I guess a weight in between no weight and the supplied one would be perfect... Perhabs I can sort something out.

Try floating the strobe. In an earlier post, Craig described some foam stuff that'll probably work for you.

@herb and james:

Yes, you are right I am not limited to 1/200. I even tried 1/320. Find a sample attached (I left the exif intact). I am not sure if the masking at the lower border is because of the sync speed or my strobe placement?! I will try this again also with macro setup.

Looks like masking by the shutter to me, too straight and sharp to be due to strobe coverage. Looks like 1/300 is the limit. Very good! I'll take another 1/2 stop.

Excellent, thanks for posting these results. It will shorten my pool time with the set-up and increase the hot tub time. Appreciated.

Now I can't wait to get mine housed.

Over the last 10 days, I've shot about a thousand shots (literally) u/w with this camera/housing combination, I might shed some light. The camera and my two strobes are very negative even with the lead removed. I would like to see the strobes a bit more buoyant as suggested, that would make it a bit more comfortable to use. I actually thought of floating the strobes (just to the point of neutral) but I didn't get around to experimenting.

The camera will, as mentioned, allow you to select shutter speeds above 1/200 when the sync is attached. I also had some luck with speeds up to 1/250 but I didn't trust it to behave with different strobe powers so I didn't use it much.

I used aperture priority mode for some available light shots, but for all else, I used manual (M). It's the only way to go IMO.

I've also posted a few sample shots in another thread if you're interested.

Hi NLAVD,

I will try it in a few days without the lead attached and sync times between 1/60 to 1/200. Did you try different ISO settings?

May I ask how your two DS-125 are attached to the hosuing? Do you use an dual-sync cord or additional controlers. Do you need to set the two power settings separatetly?

I just think about adding a DS-125 to my Ds-50 and I have the manual controler but don´t like the idea of operating two flash settings indepently of each other.

Do you like me also had a hard time telling if a shoots exposure is right on the cameras display?

Regards

Christian

I just posted some images of my trip to mallorca (med. sea) in the "Photo Display & Critique" board...

Hi Mexwell.

How are the watertempratures at the Balears at the moment and the other diving conditions. My Girlfriens parents have a house on ibiza and i would be interested, if it is worth going there during the winter for diving. Are a lot of diving operations open year round?

Simon

Sounds like you're making progress with the setup!

I just think about adding a DS-125 to my Ds-50 and I have the manual controler but don´t like the idea of operating two flash settings indepently of each other.

There's really no way to operate two strobes from one control with a Canon at this point. Your best bet in this case is probably to have 2 manual controllers mounted close to your handles so that you can easily adjust the strobes individually.

I guess the range of my DS-50 isn´t wide enough for 18mm (makes 28mm with the rebel)... even at distances of 3-4 meters.

No, it's not really wide enough. With your subject at 3-4 meters away, your strobe probably isn't having much of an impact on your subject anyway. I started with 1 DS-50, and recently added 2 DS-125s. The output of the DS-50 makes it a great single strobe for macro, although somewhat inflexible without TTL or a manual controller. At the wider end though, it starts to need some help. One option would be to add another DS-50 / manual controller as a cheaper alternative to the DS-125. I haven't tested this setup as I only have a sinle -50, but it might improve coverage enough for the 18-55. I don't have any idea at all if 2 -50s could handle something wider like a 15mm fisheye or the Sigma 12-24 though.

Hope this helps.

@Simon

It was very nice. Mallorca was still quite, calm and relaxed. Only few tourist on the island. Diving conditions were perfect if you ignore the cold water. My dives lasted 60 minutes and we went down to 25m at most. Viz was great. Even with an 7mm halfdry suit and gloves it was cold after 30 minutes.

Actually I had a hard time finding a base which is already opened. I only found two of em. AquaMarine Dinig in Andratx has a hot shower which was very welcomed after coming home :-)

I you find an open base near the place you have on ibiza I would certainly give it a try.

I would and will do it again!

@Tom

Yeah I am climbing the leraning curve... :-) Thats what I like most with digital you get instant feedback and lose no time leraning your system.

Regarding the flashes I am actually not sure. I have to decide before my next trip but nothing is set yet. I lean toward an DS-125 because even two DS-50 seem to limited to me. We will see....

One easy way to float the strobes is with neoprene. Bodyglove sold me a 2m x 3m sheet of 7mm neoprene for $20. I made covers for my DS-50's, DS-125's and strobe arms, just cut the material and superglue the edges together. They can easily be removed and protect the strobes on and off the boats and in the rinse tanks. They do loose buoyancy at depth, but I've got mine perfectly neutral at 50' with dual DS-125's and double segment 12" arms on a Ikelite CP-5000 housing.

Good Luck

Doug

Just got my rig today.I was planning to get started in pool, but am I dissapointed after putting it all together and the flash doesnt go off.

I have to read all the manuals etc. Any tips from you experienced guys

Thanks

Lars