Help with strobe settings

Hi everyone and let me thank you in advance for offering up some help.

I just bought a sea and sea YS-D1 strobe to compliment my Canon G16 and Fantasea housing. I am using a FO cable. I took this rig to Honduras in May and was extremely disappointed in the pics I took--to the point of just using the camera for video towards the end of the trip.

Reading back thru the manual I am guessing I do not have a good grip on what settings I should have on the strobe. Can someone please help me with this?

I am shooting primarily on AV mode. Attached are snippets of the strobe manual. I would like to use the TTL feature but might use the manual mode as well at some point. I don't think I understand the dial and how to read it----also it talks about slave mode and that is not explained well either....I do understand that I must have my onboard flash up in the camera at all times for the TTL mode and I did do that.

I will never use manual mode on the camera as it just too hard at this time. I need easy as possible. Thanks!

strobe settings.doc

so if you want to use TTL : mode switch on TTL

light level control dial up and down to perform minor adjustments.

AV (aperture priority) is not very useful. If a strobe is used, it either fixes the shutter speed at the sync speed, or it will attempt to adjust the shutter speed to get a normal exposure (which can mean too long exposures.

In bright conditions, you might end up with a natural light shot with just a hint of strobe.

better to use the manual mode in the camera to have more control over the shutter speed.

Thanks for your reply. Any suggestions on settings in manual mode to start out with for general wide angle and macro? I have not had much luck with this in the past but I guess its time to learn.

Are you saying that there is no specific setting on the dial itself for TTL vs manual mode? I see the black box on the dial says TTL--it makes me think I need to leave it in that position for TTL.

I am diving in my pool tonight to practice and Ill throw manual on my list and see what I get. I tend to forget everything when that whale shark swims in front of me

Perhaps that is the problem. No strobe will light up a whale shark!

The light output from your strobe will only travel a few meters at best. The key with wide-angle shooting is to expose the scene correctly and the use the strobe to light a subject in the foreground. In general, TTL cannot cope with this as it doe snot know what you are trying to light and will attempt to light the whole scene with the strobe (which it cannot do!).

Reality is there are no "correct settings". In manual mode, use the camera's meter to set the exposure and then light your foreground with the strobe. With little practice, it is actually relatively simple to do.

For macro, you are typically much closer to subjects, and TTL can be more reliable, as long as you only want to take "front on" shots rather that us more creative lighting techniques.

Adam

Makes sense. I will work on the manual end of things but I have always struggled with that! Thanks for laying that out to me I appreciate it!

Here are links to 2 write ups for setting up the Canon G16 for underwater use.

http://reefphoto.com/kb.php?id=59

http://www.bluewaterphotostore.com/canon-g16-guide-underwater

There are 2 different manual modes to consider: 1 for the camera; 2 for the strobe. For the camera, in manual, you select the f/stop and shutter speed. For the strobe, you select the amount of light, from min to full. They are independent settings but do effect one another. You can use M on the camera and TTL for the strobe. Set the camera to M, f/16 and 1/160. Set the left dial on the strobe to TTL and the right dial to 0 (mid position). Take a shot. You can then fine tune you image by adjusting any 1 of the settings. (You could also make adjustments using the ISO setting, but save that for later) If you want to use the strobe in manual, set the left dial to the double lightning bolt position. Your G16 uses a pre-flash. Set the right dial to 1/4 - 1/2. Take a shot. Fine tune by adjusting the right dial to get more or less light. For larger subjects, or further away, set the right dial to full.

Bob W

Thank you for the links Bob W. This is very helpful. I am waiting on a new tray to come (should be here Friday) and I am going to get in the pool and practice. I was thinking the G16 could not do TTL in manual mode....? TTL just seems so easy and that is what I am really looking for. My pics in Honduras were awful. I also had a lot of issues with backscatter and I am wondering if it isn't my shorter arm set up for my flash. Im trying out some longer arms, any suggestions there? Thanks again!

Thank you for the links Bob W. This is very helpful. I am waiting on a new tray to come (should be here Friday) and I am going to get in the pool and practice. I was thinking the G16 could not do TTL in manual mode....? TTL just seems so easy and that is what I am really looking for. My pics in Honduras were awful. I also had a lot of issues with backscatter and I am wondering if it isn't my shorter arm set up for my flash. Im trying out some longer arms, any suggestions there? Thanks again!

Backscatter results from lighting up sediment in the water that the lens can see. This is especially a problem if the lighting from the strobes converge in front of the lens.

You might try setting the strobe angles in such a way that they do not light the area immediately in front of the lens but just "kiss" the subject with the inner edge of each cone of light from the strobe.

Generally backscatter is more an issue with wide-angle than macro.

It can also help if you use ambient light to light a wide-angle scene and move your strobes to just highlight an element of the reef in the image - perhaps a colourful piece of coral or an outcrop. So the strobes are not trying to light the whole scene and increase the risk of backscatter.

Thanks Orca, I will try that technique. The pool isn't exactly the same as the big water but more experimenting this weekend. Thanks for your help!

You can use M on the camera and TTL for the strobe. Set the camera to M, f/16 and 1/160. Set the left dial on the strobe to TTL and the right dial to 0 (mid position).

How does that work? Doesn't that mean that the camera is controlling the flash intensity and duration, even though you're in Manual mode? I infer that there is a separate camera setting that controls whether the camera flash is in Manual mode or automatic? So, if the camera is in M but the flash is still in A, then despite your manual settings for A, S, and ISO, the camera will still light the flash if it thinks it needs to?

I had assumed that putting the camera in M would mean that the flash was also in M mode and you would have to manually set it if you wanted it to go off when you snap a picture.

Note: I'm talking about the camera's built-in flash because I think with a fiber optic cable, the camera's built-in flash controls the external strobe as well, right? Assuming the external strobe is in TTL mode, that is. So, whatever the answer is here, it's the same answer whether you are using an external strobe (in TTL) or not, right?

 

How does that work? Doesn't that mean that the camera is controlling the flash intensity and duration, even though you're in Manual mode? I infer that there is a separate camera setting that controls whether the camera flash is in Manual mode or automatic? So, if the camera is in M but the flash is still in A, then despite your manual settings for A, S, and ISO, the camera will still light the flash if it thinks it needs to?

 

I had assumed that putting the camera in M would mean that the flash was also in M mode and you would have to manually set it if you wanted it to go off when you snap a picture.

 

Note: I'm talking about the camera's built-in flash because I think with a fiber optic cable, the camera's built-in flash controls the external strobe as well, right? Assuming the external strobe is in TTL mode, that is. So, whatever the answer is here, it's the same answer whether you are using an external strobe (in TTL) or not, right?

That depends!. There are 3 different things involved in the process, each controlled separately:

1) the camera - f/stop, shutter speed, ISO in manual mode. Variations of control in the other modes..

2) the built in flash - depending on your camera, it may be able to be set to only fire when needed, fire full all the time, only fire fractional power, etc.

3) the external strobe - it can be set to TTL where the on/off mimics what the camera flash is doing as seen through the fiber optic cable. The strobe has no idea what's going on, it's just doing what it's told. You can use the the rotary dial to tweak the light from the strobe. Or it can be set to manual mode, where the light from the camera through the fiber optic cable is just a trigger for the strobe. It then fires based on the settings on the rotary dial. If your camera uses a pre-flash to make it's adjustments, you have to use the 2 lightning bolt setting on the strobe so it knows to ignore the 1st flash. Otherwise the strobe will fire on the pre-flash and won't be able to recycle quickly enough to fire when the shutter opens. conversely, if your camera doesn't use a pre-flash, and you tell the strobe it does, the strobe will ignore the flash and wait for the 2nd, which never comes. Ideally, when using the strobe in manual mode, you should set the camera flash (if capable) to fire all the time at it's minimal power setting. That way, you get enough light through the fiber optic cable to fire the strobe, but conserve battery power that would otherwise be wasted firing the camera flash at a high power.

Bob W

Well.. If u are talking about a G16. It does not do ttl flash in manual mode. U can try it. At any further stop. The output flash is always the same...

Meaning.. If u have M on camera and ttl on strobe. Then the strobe is just firing whatever setting on the strobe.

My suggestion for your case is to use the following setting

Manual on camera and manual on strobe. And remember these tips. For Macro. U start from the lowest light till u get the light u want. For wide angle. U start the strobe setting from the middle then increase till u get the light u want. For wide angle, also look to play with the iso. Depending on situation, u can get the iso up to 400 for wide angle.

I can't quite remember if at av mode does the camera flash ttl flash. U can try.

But I will go with manual mode on both strobe and camera

a, sorry. I was assuming it works the same way as in DSLR s. There TTL works in M mode.

Extremely helpful feedback, thanks to all of you. Still working thru the process. Hard to simulate in the pool but so far so good.

Extremely helpful feedback, thanks to all of you. Still working thru the process. Hard to simulate in the pool but so far so good.

Good idea hellhole. I am also trying to determine whether to use a double handled tray (I just bought 2 ike Vegas) or one. I have always felt like a double tray is too much for me yet I really want to experiment with these lights as well. If I use a single handle tray its kind of hard to get two Vegas to mount on there--and may be too much light anyway.....but I just feel like a single tray is easier for me to manage, plus I don't want a lot of bulk. Decisions, decisions!

Two is better then 1. Actually... Double handle tray us easier... Then single handle tray. The single handle makes me fell... Something is missing... and it made my left hand far stronger then my right.

My hands are small, and I have nails...I know I know...but a girls gotta do it LOL. It makes sense to have two and I'm leaning that way, I just don't feel like I have control with my right hand to grip the camera and change the controls etc.....its a small space between the right handle and the camera so I struggle a bit.

Also, I want to clarify--I can set my flash to the minimum output when using the strobe in manual mode? I just found where I can do that, and want to set it up under a saved mode if that's the case so I don't have to remember that.

Thanks again!

My hands are small, and I have nails...I know I know...but a girls gotta do it LOL. It makes sense to have two and I'm leaning that way, I just don't feel like I have control with my right hand to grip the camera and change the controls etc.....its a small space between the right handle and the camera so I struggle a bit.

 

Also, I want to clarify--I can set my flash to the minimum output when using the strobe in manual mode? I just found where I can do that, and want to set it up under a saved mode if that's the case so I don't have to remember that.

 

Thanks again!

In manual, when shooting marco subject. Start from the smallest light setting on the strobe then increase till desired. Soon u can look at a subject and decide what level of light u want...

Yes, it does turn too easily--aggravating. I got in the pool last night and the double tray will be fine I think. A lot easier underwater than topside to work with. I also realized that I can use my video lights to help light up a subject along with the strobe--is that typical that people do that? I went thru my first few pics and see some shadows which I am sure is due to one strobe only and/or bad placement. My photos in Roatan were horribly littered with backscatter and I know now its because of the strobe placement. I meant to take a pic of my rig so I can get some advice on where to place the video lights and strobe--and to see if my setup will work efficiently enough. I have two pics to upload to see, but for some reason the site is not letting me add them.