Got a bonus, should I go with N70 or the DigRebel?

Thom Hogan thinks that anything that is dropped by the "lossy" compression algorithm in the D70 will not be apparent because of the location of the bits. Check out his review on www.bythom.com

Cheers

James

I am not going to bash canon cameras but really there is not much comparison between the D70 and the drebel. They are not in the same class. A much more fair comparison can be drawn between the 10D or whatever the next model up is against the D70. I have seen this mentioned countless times on dpreview. I have no idea how both cameras do underwater this is just topside comparison. I am sure that the drebel is a very capable camera but I just love my D70 and with the investment in nikon lenses that I have it totally makes no sense to even look at the canon sytem. I am sure that you really can't go wrong with either system but I can't make that statement regarding underwater systems since manufacturers seem to lean toward Nikon models, eventhough recently there are a lot more canon housings to choose from.

Tony

http://www.macaddict.com/issues/0407/rev.d70.html

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...message=9111400

Just a couple of links...just type in d70 rebel in search and it will returns tons of information on www.dpreveiw.com

Tony

I'm with Tony on this one. Canon makes some amazing high end cameras, and they were brilliant in breaking the $1k price point 1st. However, credit must be given to the D70 for being THE camera in this price range. In fact, I think it is THE camera in the sub $2000 range. If you want to move up to a high end canon in the near future, or shoot on land where you'd appreciate canon's long lenses - buy the dRebel. You should be comparing systems, not cameras. If you want the best bang for your $ right now, and you are satisfied with the DX format - the D70 is your camera. Handle them both and you'll likely agree.

I will go on record that the Ikelite dome itself is probably the finest optics money can buy on any underwater housing. Four inch radius has a few advantages like easier over/under photos, and disavantates like too much buoyancy that allows easy photos pointing at the surface. The three inch radius Ikelite dome is amazingly free of any distortion and is optically superb............

really

on what central point is the radius pointing to with ike domes?

I agree: For the (US!-)price of an Ike dome there is no other (better) choice without spending more money

I am not going to bash canon cameras but really there is not much comparison between the D70 and the drebel.  They are not in the same class.  A much more fair comparison can be drawn between the 10D or whatever the next model up is against the D70.  I have seen this mentioned countless times on dpreview.  I have no idea

Jeez, I'd hate to see your comments then if you WERE bashing Canon cameras.

I took some shots with the D70 the weekend before last and enjoyed the experience even though the control layout is foreign to me. It's a strong contender from Nikon. But the Drebel is great camera too - you need to understand that it's a 10D at heart, which Canon have encased in a cheaper body and limited via firmware in order to differentiate it from the 10D. Despite a cheap plastic exterior, it's a fine image making machine.

We've discussed this many times before so you might do a search.

One point to consider is how you plan to use your strobes with this system. I think Ikelite's manual controllers will only work with the newer DS125 or DS50 strobes. That means you would be stuck with whatever manual controls are on your strobes themselves. You also might not be able to use them with TTL whenever that materializes (this is all speculation as it is not out yet).

Given your existing strobes you might consider the Fuji S2pro. James could verify this but I think you should be able to TTL with that camera with your strobes. The S2pro has the same wide angle lens selection as the D70 since it uses the Nikon lenses. It also has the lowest overall noise of any DSLR and ISO 100. There are still lots of these around and they can be had for around $2k which is a bit more than the D70 but it makes an excellent underwater camera, despite not having some of the features of the D70.

Between the Rebel and D70 it really depends on what features are more important to you. Both take excellent pictures but have slightly different features.

Rebel kit lens isn't as good as the D70 kit lens topside but on the plus side it focuses very close making it a "passable" macro lens and it doesn't require a diopter in a 6" dome so you can take split level shots.

Ikelite has already begun work on cannon TTL conversion circuitry so one would assume that you will get TTL faster with Canon.

Noise is slightly better with Canon but in comparing the noise grain subjectively the noise looks better on the Nikon. Really noise at ISO 100-200 is very slight with DSLRs.

Topside I think that the D70 handles better than the Drebel. Your strobes will never recycle fast enough to use the D70 frame rate underwater but topside this will be an advantage. I also like the feel of the D70 better with a seperate dial for aperture and shutter speed--which should be the heart of photography. The flash system on the D70 is also better than the Canon, with flash exposure compensation and the possibility of controlling multiple remote flashes. Canon lets you use a vertical grip which is useful if you like heavy cameras and take a lot of portriat shots. Battery capacity on both cameras will blow your mind so don't think that you need two batteries in the camera. The vertical grip is really a professional feature that you should consider for the 10D or D100 anyway.

The whole lossy-vs-lossless RAW compression is merely academic. The only real comparison is in image size, and speed. How many pictures fit on a CF card and how fast.

BTW regarding Ikelite domes:

I don't think there are any difinitive quality tests but Ikelite does have domes that are capable of using everything up to the Nikon 10.5 mm lens that gets 180 degrees on digital. So there should be no problem accomidating any lens.

As someone who went through this process a few months ago, I'll toss in my 2 bits. I ultimately decided on the D70 and have been very happy with my choice.

- Build and material of the D70 is far superior. In my hands the DRebel felt flimsy and "plasticy". The D70 also has a plastic case, but is much more substantial.

- The D70 is FAST. Really fast, and feels closer to a film SLR than the other DSLR's I've handled.

- I wish the view finder of the D70 was a bit larger. The D100 is slightly better on this point.

- I've heard about problems with short battery life in the S2 from several people. The D70 can easily take a 1000+ photos on one battery. Not sure about the cannon.

- I have to agree about the D70 being easier to operate in a housing. I highly value the seperate Speed / Aperture controls. My old Olympus required a Button Press + Dial to access both. I hated that. The Ikelite D70 housing is a breeze to use even in Dry Gloves.

My last comment is that you should buy the camera from a local dealer that sells all of these cameras. Try it out for a week and return it if you don't like the one you pick.

Dave

well, the plot just keeps getting thicker!!!

In regards to the port issue, we're talking about softness at the edges of wide-angle. I dont know how much of an issue that is for me, since I shoot a Nik V witha 15mm now, and I get TONS of softness since I dork up the focus so often its not funny. I would guess I would never be able to tell. Just a matter of perspective.

D70 vs Dreb: well I do have to agree with the comments on hand feel. The D70 did feel more substantial, but I am used to a cheap sudo-SLR minolta so I can deal with that. I do wish the kit lenses were the same (I mean NO difference) with regard to performance. It would make a decision a little easier. I Just looked at Chrism's first shots and I would be extremely happy with those as first time Dslr shooter, so this is a plus for the Dreb (since the $$ savings of the Rebel vs the Nikon would let me get a macro lens also).

This issue is for Ike himself: I just talked with Berkeley at Backscatter and it seems that I cant get a housing with the 5-pin nikon bulkhead!!!! Need an adapter or new cord!!! AHhhhhhhhhh! Or Ikelite strobes!!! This is a problem I did not foresee. Too many niggling additions ($$) to be able to use what I already have. Say it aint so! Also, no way to work both the zoom and manual focus??

So in the end (not yet the end) I am simply inclined to go with the Dreb because the $$ savings are almost too good to pass up, and it looks to me like I will be more than happy with the camera's potential for my uses. Since I plan to have my wife use it as a macro rig when we dive (while I have the Nik V w/a rig).

Well, for an unplanned impulse purchase - a wild hair, if you will - this is turning out to be the most planned and researched thing I've done in a long time. Whew!

:shock:

Thanks for all the excellent feedback.

Robert

The kit lens for the DRebel only costs around $50 extra, so it's worth having for a walk around lens. I would save the cost of the port and not use it underwater. Start with a 50mm macro and 15mm FE.

Congrats on your decision Robert, just get it wet! Post some shots..

Tony

Congrats on your decision Robert, just get it wet! Post some shots..

 

Tony

Keep it dry! Post some shots....

You really can't go wrong with either camera and I'm sure you will be satisfied with your decision.

I'd second herbko's comments on lenses. I'd get the 50mm macro and the 15mm FE. They are both great lenses. The 50mm macro can double as a portrait lens topside untill you get a dedicated portrait lens.

You will be happy that you invested the time in researching this. This stuff is complicated and expensive--it was time well spent.

Enjoy yourself and make excellent pictures.

well, today was the day. Went to Backscatter in Monterey and ordered the Ike housing with macro port, ordered the Sigma 50mm macro (no one has this damn thing in stock for some reason), ordered the 1GB CF. I am SOOOO glad to get rid of that cash ! It was really burning a hole in my pocket. LOL

Still a little pissed I cant get Nikon bulkheads though. Had to buy another damn cord too!

So, hopefully, the adventure really begins next weekend (Ike, send it to Berkeley ASAP, please!) if Backscatter gets it from Ike, I get the media, and the lens.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me with the decision.

When I get something worth posting, its going up here first!

Happy shooting,

Robert