Got a bonus, should I go with N70 or the DigRebel?

I know its a pretty open ended question with a million possible nuances, so I hope to get a good top level view (expecially the big pitfalls of either system that my be a deal breaker).

Cost is an issue expecially with the cost of the housings, but I have the luxury of not having any cannon or nikon lenses that I must buy the correct camera for, so no backward compatibility issues. I would say I have close to $3k to use.

I do have 2 SB-105 strobes that I want to re-use, so I need to make sure I can get the nikon strobe port on the housing.

I currently use a Nik V w/ Sea and Sea 15mm, so I am used to manual settings on strobes so I am not afraid of no TTL (I mean, at least you get to preview how badly you lit the shot and delete/re-shoot, right?).

So, what set up would give the biggest bang for the buck. $$ -wise it would appear that the Ikelite housing with the Rebel would be cheapest, but how usable is the camera's included lens for UW stuff?

I like the security of buying Nikon product, but is the additional $300 worth it for the basic set-up (camera/lens)? How much more of a premium (any?) are housings for Nikon?

Really any direction you can give would be helpful.

Thanks,

Robert

Do you have cannon or Nikon lenses? If so go with that camera. If not look at the lenses available for each camera that you might use UW and decide which you like better. Don't look at the cheap solution as those lenses you will replace with good lenses and end up wasting money. The Nikon DX lenses are a good solution for the wide angle problem with these 1.5x dSLRs.

I have no lenses at all, except for my NIk V which are useless for either. I have read that people like the 12-24 Dx for the nikon for wide angle (sounds like equiv to my S&S 15mm), but that's another grand. Ouch.

R

Canon advantage: Better image sensor

Nikon advantage: Better lens selection. You'll have to spend ~$700 for the 10.5mm or $1k each for the 12-24 or 70-180 macro to take advantage of this.

Canon advantage: Better image sensor

 

Nikon advantage: Better lens selection. You'll have to spend ~$700 for the 10.5mm or $1k each for the 12-24 or 70-180 macro to take advantage of this.

Amen brother Herb. Exactly, and I still think Canon will have a WA out soon enough. Just hoping I guess although the 15mm fe has shown well.

Ok, that's 2 people with the Aquatica housing. Is there something about the A300 that is better than the Ike. Was it the first one available? Guess I should expand the topic and ask what are the key features of the housing I need to be aware of.

R

Welcome to Wetpixel "R"

I would suggest that you try out the search feature.....this subject has been well documented and you'll find lots of information on both systems

Karl

I played with both topside and preferred the D70. Running the numbers seems to favor the D70 on paper as well.

Doubt that there is any significant difference in the image quality of these two cameras. Go to DPreview and read the comparison between them.

Canon advantage: Better image sensor

 

Nikon advantage: Better lens selection. You'll have to spend ~$700 for the 10.5mm or $1k each for the 12-24 or 70-180 macro to take advantage of this.

 

Amen brother Herb. Exactly, and I still think Canon will have a WA out soon enough. Just hoping I guess although the 15mm fe has shown well.

The 15mm will work well for the shark pics that we all expect you to come back with. The 10.5mm is too wide for that. I'd probably get one if Canon or Sigma comes out with a 10.5mm. I think will pass on the other two at those prices.

Doubt that there is any significant difference in the image quality of these two cameras. Go to DPreview and read the comparison between them.

Phil only comparied shots at ISO 200 and up. The Canon has ISO 100. He also did not have any pics with a wide dynamic range. See the articles I cited at the middle of this thread:

http://wetpixel.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-5...2-start-0.phtml

So, what set up would give the biggest bang for the buck.  $$ -wise it would appear that the Ikelite housing with the Rebel would be cheapest, but how usable is the camera's included lens for UW stuff?  

 

I like the security of buying Nikon product

Rebel kit lens appears very usable underwater, it's certainly a fair bit softer than a real lens above water but I haven't seen anyone compare it to a prime or L-zoom underwater - it'd be hard to do but interesting, as this is a good underwater focal length and Canon almost give them away with the camera.

10D is increasingly attractive as an underwater choice now that a cheap (Ikelite) housing is finally available. The 300D/Reb lacks a few very useful features (second control dial, flash exposure compensation and focus mode selection to name a few), and the $500 odd price difference is

fairly minimal in comparison to the total cost of setup. Just a thought.

As for the security of buying Nikon product, if you sleep better knowing you've chosen the second most popular DSLR system then go for it!

Robert, I'm not sure where you're located, but try to get your hands on similar housings for both systems and go through the motions of working the camera underwater........how easy is it to change shutter speeds and f-stops with one hand? focus modes? etc. etc.

In my opinion, the D70 is much more user friendly underwater and is feature rich......also flash sync speed is significantly higher.....I've used mine up to 1/1000 with DS125's, while the dRebel can be pushed to 1/320

As far as optical quality...remember, we are shooting through water after all...I would be surprised if you could tell the difference in two photos of the same subject.....again my opinion

You really can't go wrong with either system

My housing selection was agonizing and I flip flopped several times...once I got over aluminum envy, I chose Ikelite over Aquatica for several reasons....customer service and a track record with the company... costs (I'm buying for 2)...I prefer a clear housing so I can see the camera controls - I didn't mention looking for leaks because Ikelite doesn't leak ...I felt blind holding a Nexus housing at SeaSpace...even though I thoroughly knew the camera, I had to really think to find the proper controls....probably just me ...Aquatica has really nice ports, but that wasn't enough to tip the scales for me

Karl

Aquatica has really nice ports, but that wasn't enough to tip the scales for me  

Ditto for me. I almost switched to 300D and Aquatica, mainly because of the nice dome ports. I never really established if the Ikelite domes were any good for fisheye.

In the end, better looking ports and the chance to impress chicks with an aluminIum housing didn't justify the added cost, which was considerable once you factor in port costs and the m-TTL ICU I was planning on getting.

Check out the reviews of the two cameras on www.bythom.com for a good comparison of features.

The D70 is a bit easier to use in a housing because you can change aperture and shutter speed using the front and rear command dials. You don't have to push a button and turn a dial at the same time.

Other than that, the two systems are very similar. The D70 writes to media much faster and you can literally hold down the button (even shooting raw) and take photos until your card is full. Pretty neat.

Cheers

James

10D is increasingly attractive as an underwater choice now that a cheap (Ikelite) housing is finally available. The 300D/Reb lacks a few very useful features (second control dial, flash exposure compensation and focus mode selection to name a few), and the $500 odd price difference is  

fairly minimal in comparison to the total cost of setup. Just a thought.  

 

As for the security of buying Nikon product, if you sleep better knowing you've chosen the second most popular DSLR system then go for it!  

LOL

as for the 10D issues, there are ways around at least one (maybe two, has the focus mode selection been h*****?) of those issues, 300D seems to be getting closer to the 10D all the time. 8)

I will say that I would like a second jog dial, but the A300 setup works pretty well from the little topside use I;ve done so far. Screw in a pin to change the aperture function. I assume for macro set it at f22 and use the dial for shutter speed. That sort of thing

Chris

I have gone to all the links suggested and now thoroughly confused myself to the point of paralysis!!!

Actually, all comments were immensely valuable, and even after one day I find myself knowing more than camera shop dudes when comparing the two. That's prettty scary!

So, now that I now that the Reb does ISO 100, WHY is that so much more valuable when I would be using 2 Nik SB105's on manual settings and can review/adjust/reshoot. Maybe my eye will never notice iso 100 vs 200 shots.

So its coming down to the fact that I can get the rebel/ike housing and port with money left over to buy a macro lens. I am a little concerned about the fact that Ike ports for wide angle may be limiting, but I am consoling myself with the fact that I can take 2 cameras (need to buy another strobe) with me if I make the Reb the Macro unit (with a 50 mm or the kit lens at maximum focal lenght) and my NIkV with 15mm the W/A unit.

Please hammer my (not-so) analytical rationalizations regarding the above idea with what I may be forgetting. Hell, we can all be Norber Wu wannabes can't we!?!?!!?

Thanks again all.

Chris, I will reply back to your message with some additional ??'s.

Robert

So, now that I now that the Reb does ISO 100, WHY is that so much more valuable when I would be using 2 Nik SB105's on manual settings and can review/adjust/reshoot.  Maybe my eye will never notice iso 100 vs 200 shots.  

 

So its coming down to the fact that I can get the rebel/ike housing and port with money left over to buy a macro lens.  I am a little concerned about the fact that Ike ports for wide angle may be limiting, but I am consoling myself with the fact that I can take 2 cameras (need to buy another strobe) with me if I make the Reb the Macro unit (with a 50 mm or the kit lens at maximum focal lenght) and my NIkV with 15mm the W/A unit.  

Iso 100 is pretty irrelevant, iso 100 and iso 200 are virtually the same in terms of picture quality so I almost always shoot at iso 200+ anyway.

As far as the 'Ike ports for wide angle' comment you make above, I'm guessing you're referring to my earlier comment about Ike with fisheye - so I probably should put this in context. In another thread some time ago we were discussing dome port quality, and I don't think we ever concluded where the Ike ports sat in relation to other manufacturers. This doesn't mean they're bad, just that I don't know how good they are. I'll know soon enough I guess! Conclusion was that custom-ground ports for Seacam were probably the best, but I have a feeling that they're likley to cost just a little bit more than the Ike domes...

So, now that I now that the Reb does ISO 100, WHY is that so much more valuable when I would be using 2 Nik SB105's on manual settings and can review/adjust/reshoot.  Maybe my eye will never notice iso 100 vs 200 shots.  

I shoot almost entirely at ISO 100, and rarely ever touch the ISO button underwater.

The thing that is important is exposure range. At ISO 100 you can take in twice the light before saturating the sensor. That mean you can capture scenes that have twice the brightness range. Alway try to capture the brightess part of the pic without clipping. You can brighten the parts that are too dark with curves later. If you shoot raw, the 12 bit per color output has enough levels that you can usually brighten things by a factor of two without noticeable banding.

The other factor is shutter speed. The D70 at 1/640s and ISO 200 will capture the highlights almost as well as the DRebel at 1/320 and ISO 100. However the higher power strobes will also get cut off and loss some power at high shutter speeds. I think Jeff's test showed the DS 125 will loss power for speeds higher than 1/250, and the Inon Z220 will start to be cut off at 1/500.

Other than that, the two systems are very similar.  The D70 writes to media much faster and you can literally hold down the button (even shooting raw) and take photos until your card is full.  Pretty neat.

 

Cheers

James

They paid a price for that feature. The "raw" file compression is not lossless. See

http://www.majid.info/mylos/weblog/2004/05/02-1.html