Subtronic EOS 300D ETTL

Translation of data sheet from news section:

Guidenumber (?) 11

Angle 100° with domeport

0,1 - 2,5sec recycle time

capacity: 90 full flashes

automatic charger via sync cable

illuminated back

LED pilot light, activated by camera (focus light) or Switch

S6 Socket

sturdy aluminum housing

high quality digital technic

I hope I got it right

Cheers from Manila

Torben

Sounds great.

Now we just need iTTL and we'll be delighted.

Hi,

Subtronic does not admit it straight forward oficially, but it's "just" the Matthias Heinrichs converter built into the Mini TTL.

Don't want to destroy any hope, but as long as Matthias does not provide adaption to more cameras it will be limited to the 300D for the time being.

regards,

Julian

I think the concept is flawed - look at the size of the thing! I have a subal housed SB800 which I stopped using after about 6 dives because its simply too big to comfortably move around and position when shooting macro. I went back to manual flash (SnS 90s) because it was actually easier in some ways. As we only want xttl for macro and short range portraiture the strobe is quite limited.

I think the concept is flawed - look at the size of the thing! I have a subal housed SB800 which I stopped using after about 6 dives because its simply too big to comfortably move around and position when shooting macro. I went back to manual flash (SnS 90s) because it was actually easier in some ways. As we only want xttl for macro and short range portraiture the strobe is quite limited.

I thought the same when I looked at their photo. It looks big enough to house the camera with a 200mm lens. Funny they called it the "mini", wonder what the regular and jumbo are like.

Are you talking about the strobe? It's actually smaler then a YS90 and has about 2 times the power than a YS90+longer battery life+focus light (optional).

The Gamma- and Mega-series are big, but look at the data again (350Ws every 2.3seconds....)

I was going by this photo.

Is this a composite and not a simple photo?

This looks like a Gamma-strobe or a composite, the "Mini" is very compact. Compare with the inflator hose above.

Subtronic "Mini" is 160mm x 77mm

S&S YS90 is 175mm x88mm

The Subtronic Mini is about the same size as a beer can. So is pretty small. The picture with the camera is not accurate.

I know a guy in the UK who has been using them all year. The power is good and so is the recycle time. The main complaint I have heard is the battery life - which can be a bit limiting - because the batteries are non-removeable and so you must get back to a power socket.

His are the pre-ETTL versions (and he is using them with a D100 + L&M housing). He uses an INON Quad for macro, so I think he is using the Minis for Wide Angle.

Alex

according to subtronic mini specs, recycle time is 2.5 sec and you can expect 100 full dumps per charge on a proprietary NiCad power source. Battery performance may be influenced by age and temp among other variables.

They are listed at 100 watt sec of power. I have not confirmed these specs, only passing on the info supplied by the mfg. The strobe also weighs 800 g out of water and 200 g underwater. The strobe angle of coverage is 90°.

Subtronic produces both the mini ttl and mini digital. They are built on the same platform. The mini ttl has 4 manual power levels.

hth,

b

Alex,

Thank you for keeping me anonymous! As I have spotted this thread I thought I had better come out and comment.

I have had a pir of these Mini TTl's since January and have been delighted with them. Good power and beam spread and a pair gives adequate coverage for a 10.5mm fish eye. The number of flashes could be a limiting factor - approximately 90 firing at full power. I am using them with a LMI Titan and D100 and have found that I rarely shoot above half power unless it is into the sun. So you will be able to expose a 1gb card on RAW - the fast chargers then take a little over an hour to charge up.

There is also another digital version of these guns which uses a sensor that reads the pop up flash on compact cameras or DSLR's - I have only seen this demo'd on land (Canon D60 I think) but it seemed to give good TTL over a range of apertures and shutter speeds.

These guns are also relatively cheap if bought in Euros in Europe - built very well and a joy to travel with unlike the Alpha's and Megas!

Hope that helps.

Mark Webster

D100, LMI Titan, Minis, Quad and too many other flash guns on the shelf.

www.photec.co.uk

I wonder what you are getting out of the custom battery considering the Inon Z220 gives similar power, coverage, and recycle time with 4 AA's yet provides twice as many cycles per charge and 9 power levels. It's also much lighter and is neutral underwater. That 200g in-water weight is also disappointing. 25% of the weight is negative? How could they miss so badly? Manufacturers need to make their stuff neutral and with a strobe this small there's no reason why they shouldn't. A bouyancy arm won't make up 200g.

Well I don't know or have compared them but would doubt that the Z220 (which I do have as well) will give the same performance.

The Mini has 90° coverage underwater (sounds realistic to me with the ring type tube). Subtronic value is stated in the same manner as the strobe test PDF which has given the Z220 roughly about 50°.

Mini strobe power is 100 Ws. Z220 is a bit less than 60 Ws. So the battery dumps a lot more energy to recharge the Mini.

That said, I never used a Mini.

However I do like the Z220's features (focus light, laser, 11 steps and so on). And I agree that I prefer the 4 AAs over a custom battery which is not exchangeable between the dives.

Julian

Z220 rated at 50 degrees and 60Ws? Not right at all. It's not a particularly wide strobe but 90 degrees is roughly correct and 100Ws is also. Where is the source for the spec of less than 60Ws?

Inon rates the strobe at a recycle time of 3.5 seconds but that's with a 1500mA battery (I believe). My experience is that it is much faster than that.

4 2200mA AA's provide over 10Wh's of power, or about 38,000 Ws assuming no internal losses. Not saying the Mini isn't sexy because it is, but I've always felt that the reward for accepting a custom battery should be getting something that a AA strobe can't do (like 250Ws and fast recycles). I'd like some Subtronic strobes, only the big ones.

Now, some people don't like AA's at all so they might prefer the Mini's or DS-125's. That's OK by me but AA's are cheap and are far easier to carry extra batteries/chargers for. It's always the thing you have only one of that fails.

Sorry Craig, you're wrong: The Z220 has a bit more then 50Ws. I don't like soldered-in batteries as well but the subtronics are a nice piece of engineering

That 200g in-water weight is also disappointing.

Watt seconds. Guide Numbers. Angle of Coverage. Weights. Strobe manufacturers list data in various methods. Sometimes confusing to us, as we can see. I too am in the process of researching these specs. That is why I had the Subtronic data accessible.

I went back to recheck the document I was obtaining my information from. Subtronic listed the weight specifications in the following manner:

weight/weight underwater 0,8kg /2N(200g)

I inferred that the land weight was 800 grams and the underwater weight was 200 grams.

It now occurs to me that a negative number (denoted in this case possibly by a capitol N) underwater may also be a way of implying that the strobe is actually positively buoyant by 200 g. I am familiar with other strobe manufacturers (Inon, S & S) that list positively buoyant strobe weights preceded by a minus (-) sign.

The document may be viewed here in it's entirety:

http://www.nimal.ru/uw_camera_case/subtronic_mini.pdf

I have emailed Subtronic requesting they clarify this for me. I apologize to craig and the group if I have misinterpreted the specifications and will repost any clarifications when they become available.

"N" is for Newton!

1N ~ 100gr

Hi Craig,

Inon does not state the flash energy. Matthias Heinrichs has opened the flash:

"One capacitor in the Z220 has 600µF, the other 500µF. Both are rated for 330V. That's a flash energy of 59W/sec".

The Z220 coverage is 100° topside. The front glass is more flat compared to the Mini's shape. And the Mini has a ring type tube. So I really doubt reaching the same 90° underwater with the Z220.

I had 50° in mind but it was 55° in the subacam strobe test for the Z220.

agreed, I do prefer the Inon batteries as well over one built in non interchangeable battery. And I like the features of my Z220.

Julian

Please provide a source for the 50Ws spec then. It doesn't jive with tested results which suggest that the Z220 is much more like the DS125 than the DS50 in overall power. As far as I know, Inon doesn't list watt-second ratings but it does provide guide numbers.

The Inon America website lists the Z220 as providing 100 degrees coverage and a 22 meter air guide number. Subtronic's website lists the Mini at 90 degrees with an UW guide number of 11 at 2m (I believe). I've personally measured the Z220 at f/16 at 1 meter and the coverage is way, way better than "50 degrees". There is ample evidence that the Z220 and the Mini are comparable in power and coverage.

Hi Craig,

 

Inon does not state the flash energy. Matthias Heinrichs has opened the flash:

"One capacitor in the Z220 has 600µF, the other 500µF. Both are rated for 330V. That's a flash energy of 59W/sec".

 

The Z220 coverage is 100° topside. The front glass is more flat compared to the Mini's shape. And the Mini has a ring type tube. So I really doubt reaching the same 90° underwater with the Z220.

I had 50° in mind but it was 55° in the subacam strobe test for the Z220.

 

agreed, I do prefer the Inon batteries as well over one built in non interchangeable battery. And I like the features of my Z220.

 

Julian

Sorry, I missed this post on my previous reply.

I'm not sure how to interpret the claim that Inon's coverage is rated in air and I see nothing from Inon to suggest that. In any case, the face of the strobe is curved, the internal reflector virtually flat, and my experience is that the coverage is far better than 50-55 degrees. It may not be as good as the Mini or it may be better. Too much is made of the ring-shaped tube. The Inon configuration makes a square pattern that in my opinion is quite desirable.

Where are the "subacam strobe test" results? I'd like to see them. Presumably they compare the Z220 to the Mini among others?

If we are comparing capacitors, what does the Mini have? It seems to me that a strobe test is what's called for and I'm not aware of one that includes the Mini. Any suppliers for the Mini in the USA? If there is one I'll place an order.

I doubt the Mini is 200g positive in water considering its metal construction (though it would be welcome). A pound difference in bouyancy is something you can really feel. I consider both these strobes to be macro strobes that can do double duty. Perhaps the Mini is more suitable as a wide angle strobe but I wish it were lighter UW. My macro rigs are always too heavy. Now, if it were positive I could be more easily sold. I'd like 1/2 stop power levels and a good front filter mount, though, like I get with the Inon's.