Subtronic EOS 300D ETTL

"One capacitor in the Z220 has 600µF, the other 500µF. Both are rated for 330V. That's a flash energy of 59W/sec".

It's odd that a manufacturer would operate any component at its rated voltage. If the caps were indeed rated for 330V I doubt Inon would run them that high although they might. You need to measure the actual voltage of the supply to get watt-seconds, not read it off the part. Of course, if they're rated at 330V it's even more unlikely that they are running them at the 400V they'd need to to produce the power I assume they do, but in any case this is not definitive. I'm surprised that the caps aren't the same as I've been told that they are.

Perhaps the Z220 has greater falloff than the Mini and the difference in specs comes from that.

Hi,

Inon Z220 manual page 39 says 100° in air.

"subacam" (sorry for that, it's scubacam) test is linked here in the forum:

http://www.wetpixel.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic...ic-t-5591.phtml

what I meant with the frontglass is that the mini has a dome which looks like the big subtronics for spreding the light (smaller refraction effect).

The "normal" Mini is stated with 90° uw. Subtronic offers a Dome with stated 100° for the Mini on request without additional cost if someone wants to have it.

Mini is stated with 100 Ws by Subtronic.

I don't say that these are all 100% true values. I just have the impression that the Z220 would not reach the same coverage.

That said, I use one Z220 with a 80° diagonal lens and it's fine.

Subtronic measures coverage with 1 f-stop fall off at the edges.

Same was done in the scubacam test.

I will most probably order the Mini in october.

Julian

The scubacam test doesn't state whether the angle in one way or not, so it's not clear if the coverage is 55 degrees measured or 110. The DS-125 is only ten degrees wider however and the Z220 was the second widest in the test. I'd also note that the Z220 measured brighter than the DS-125 (which is a 110 Ws strobe). That would be hard to imagine if it's giving up a full stop in the power supply but anything's possible I suppose. Incidently, this test is the reason I've assumed that the Z220 was roughly 100Ws.

I would also like to try a Mini. If it's as wide as a DS-125 and brighter than a Z220 it would be a winner at its relatively light weight. The downside of the battery is somewhat offset by the ability to charge it without opening the battery compartment (assuming you can charge at the camera table). I suspect you could shoot macro all day on a single charge if it's really twice as powerful as the Z220.

"N" is for Newton!

Thanks Satura!

To cross check, I decided to do a little math to see if it also makes sense, that is the strobe weighs around 200 grams in water. Relying once again on the manufactures supplied data, I came up with the following:

Subtronic states the mini series strobe weighs on land 800 grams, or 28.2 ounces.

It's dimensions are:

length 160mm=6.3 inches

width 73mm=2.87 inches=Radius of 1.44 inches

To determine the Volume of a cylinder ( the strobe ), we multiply the Length of the cylinder times Pi times the Radius Squared:

V=L*Pi*(R*R)

V=6.3*3.14*2.07

V=41 cubic inches

One cubic inch of salt water weighs approximately .59 ounces

41 cubic inches times .59 = 24.19 ounces of salt water displaced by the volume of the strobe.

The strobe weighs 28.2 oz on land. It's size will displace 24.19 oz of salt water, yielding on paper, a net weight of 4.01 ounces in salt water. 4.01 ounces equals roughly a weight underwater of 113.7 grams.

Subtronic states an underwater weight of 200 grams or @ 7 ounces, which is @ 3 ounces different than my paper calculations. One possible explanation for the difference may be that the strobe is not a perfect cylinder. But I believe the formula to determine volume, combined with Archimedes Principle, supports the negatively buoyant claim.

Hi Craig,

yeah, a strobe with smaller coverage angle has often a "stronger" guide number in the bright center. Just think of a laser pointer which does not have a "big W/s value" ;-).

Julian

Hi Bobf,

you are right, the Subtronic are usually not perfect cylinder.

There is the dome in the front and the backplate is mounted slightly back.

There are neoprene covers available from subtronic to wrap around the cylinder. These protect the housing and compensate for the neg. buoyancy.

I used Subtronic 3000pro and Mega Color for a long time. Was happy with them so far. I'm selling them right now because of the size and weight. The build in battery is another issue. I'm tired of running out of power on two dives out trips...

You cannot disconnect the pilot light. This brings a hell of trouble when you put them in your luggage, since they are "divelights" to the ground staff of airports. There have been cases of photographers who had to leave theire strobes behind.

I'm thinking of getting two Inon Z220. I hope they have enough power. I'm used to 350Ws...

Just had a look the the mini specs.. It takes 5-6 hours to recharge them...

Cheers Torben

Perhaps the bulb can be removed for travel. What a disappointment, though. Subtronic offers a fast charger for the Mini although I don't see it on the website (they offered it to me over email). I've requested the neoprene sleeves.

Hi Craig,

the front can be opened to replace the bulb but it is not designed to be opened all the time. The front ring is smooth, this makes it more difficult to open it. Subtronic offers a plastic card that locks the buttons on the back and has a paper that says the strobe will do no harm, but this is still not enough for some security guys.

I prefer AA out, AA in I think.

Cheers Torben

I wonder if you can use a dual-Subtronic "Mini" setup with a 300D? Two parallel eTTL strobes to one camera.... I have doubts that this will work.

Hi

that were exactly my thoughts when I got to know that they built in the Matthias Heinrichs E-TTL converter into the strobe and sell that as a 300D E-TTL version with S6 cable.

I would prefer the converter built into the camera housing. So you could use 2 normal Mini TTLs with standard Nikonos sync cables.

Julian

Myself, I like the crechargable battery on the DS125. Having to lug around a bunch of batteries on a week long dive trip or worse buy them at inflated prices on a trip doesn't sound like a good idea. Rechargable AAs don't seem to have the same amount of power. Instead you get one battery that you keep re-using. Better for the environment too. No need to change them during a dive day--the DS125 battery goes strong all day long.

Not being able to change the battery if it wears out or if you would like to have a spare seems like a problem. But what you get in return is one less user-maintained seal. No battery door or o-ring to think about. I think this actually contributes to reliability not a strike against it. The most likely failure mode is a "F#@%&" (no-won't say the F word) which this helps to eliminate. Replacing AAs won't help if there is seawater inside.

On the positive side, perhaps you could send it back for a replacement if the battery starts building a memory. And if the price is reasonable, maybe a whole new strobe is the best option for a backup. Now if thre only was a way to charge the the DS125 without removing the battery it would be nice to go all week without removing it. The DS125 battery seems pretty rugged though. It might not be a disaster if water got in between the battery and the strobe. Any experience?

The low guide number of 11 and the projected energy output of 50 Ws seems to be consistent with the DS125 comparison.

The DS125 gives an UW guide number of 32 with 110 Ws of energy. It also goes for 150 shots (and mine much more at less than full power) so it should be more than adequate for anyone's 1/2 day of shooting. I put mine on the fast charger while I eat lunch.

Now with the Ikelite eTTL module I don't really see the advantage of the Subtronic. With the Ikelite system you get FEC and TTL and much more power, a modelling light, at neutral bouyancy. It's a heavy strobe to cary on the plane but I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

The low guide number of 11 and the projected energy output of 50 Ws

I assume we're still talking about the new Subtronic Mini?

I assume the Subtronic GN to be measured underwater in meters at ISO 100. Ikelite's DS 125 GN of 32 ( 110 WS) is measured underwater in feet, ISO 100.

To translate feet to meters, divide by 3.28, yielding a metric guide number for the DS 125 of around 10. Therefore if you were one meter from strobe to subject, you could assume an aperture of f/10 with a DS 125 at full power. ( A=GN/D)

Ahh, I had forgotten that with the Mini being German it would probably be metric.

So then I'm confused. Either the guide number, the assumption of 50Ws energy or the coverage angle isn't correct.

Now with the Ikelite eTTL module I don't really see the advantage of the Subtronic. With the Ikelite system you get FEC and TTL and much more power, a modelling light, at neutral bouyancy.

When the Ikelite eTTL module will be shipped, it works for the time being with exactly 1 housing and two strobes (only newer DS-50 and DS-125).

The Mini works with every housing. Get the converter without the Mini, installing it into the housing and it works with many strobes (Sea&Sea, Inon Z220 including laser and focus light control, and so on).

The Mini is available with focus light as well.

Julian

Conversely, Julian, the two Ikelite strobe models will work with Canon 10D, 20D and G6 when available in the next few months, the Olympus E1, and the Nikon iTTL systems which are being developed now.............

Hi Ike,

As I understand the two strobes (50 & 125) won't be sold featuring E-/i-TTL for non ikelite housings? conversion is not processed in the strobe itself?. If yes, scratch my post.

We do/will include conversion with each housing for use with the common strobe systems that still works with film cameras like Nikonos, Nikon, Canon, etc. Some of our older SubStrobe models can be utilized with the new digital cameras, but preflash and sync circuit requirement changes by the camera companies don't make it easy. They may want you to buy a new strobe? The eTTL conversion that works with Canon 10D does not work with new Canon 20D or G6 for example. These are exciting but not easy times trying to keep up with the rapidly changing digital camera requirements.

So what you're saying Ike is that because eTTL or iTTL is different for each camera in a manufacturers lineup, say the 10d vs the 20d, it makes more sense to put the electronics in the housing for that camera? Otherwise you'd end with a DS-125 for the 10d and a DS-125 for the 20d, etc, etc.

Am I on track here?

Ikelite don't want people to use non-Ikelite stuff (e.g. strobes) on Ikelite housings, so it's better to include the circuit into the housing and make the circuit work only with Ike strobes (It's a bit like canon, they don't want third-party strobes as well so Metz or Ikelite have to hack it). And the electronics will make the housing more expensive, many serious uw-photographers have a backup camera and if the housing floods the converter is dead, too. When looking at the 300D-TTL housing I assume a significant upgrade price and cannot see why I should use the +/- -Buttons on the housing instead of the cameras buttons (Yes, I do have the hack installed). A converter only or eTTL-strobe is the better option. I'm quite Subtronic thought about dual use of two minis, as well. As far as I can tell they do not sell the 300D-Minis already...