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Sony a6000 vs a6500

Started by dubscutty ·

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Sony a6000 vs a6500

42 posts
  1. 18 minutes ago, DevilEyeDog said:

    Have you found good luck with the SeaFrogs/Meikon line?  

    I've put close to a hundred dives on my A6xxx Salted Line housing over the past year without any significant issues. The zoom gear for 10-18mm f/4 lens is fiddly to set up, but reliable when properly positioned. I did have a problem with left strobe not firing properly (the fiber optic ports are slightly offset from the camera flash and use a reflector to guide the light) but switching to multicore fiber optic cables (from Nitescuba on Aliexpress) resolved that completely - I'm 40 dives into my current trip with zero strobe troubles.

  2. Thanks!  That's good to hear.  Something I'll think about then.

     

  3. While the 4.33 dome is considered a fish eye dome,  it was designed to be used with Sony's 16mm pancake by itself or with the fish-eye adapter added.  Many use the Sigma 19mm in it with excellent results, so it does work quite well with many rectilinear lens, even the extremely wide Z12. When comparing it's corner performance to the larger 7" dome, it had ever so slight softer corners compared to the larger dome, BUT the CFWA was incredible and beyond my imagination, opening up creative compositions, which was the main reason I stuck with the 4.33.  Both CFWA and SM simply was not possible with the 7" dome. 

    I'm currently looking into a N85 to N120 adapter to add to the N85 to N100 adapter that I use with the S90 macro.  Looking at the possibility of using the 4/4.33 inch N120 dome in place of the N85 4.33. This could potentially replace the Sony 18-55 Kit lens with the new Sony 16-55 f2.8 "G" lens for much higher IQ. The lens is to physically too wide for the N85 port and would require a two part dome set-up that they have used before.  Lots of hurdles to jump through in zoom control and other issues,  but mostly the cost of the gear, so it may be a while, if ever,  before it moves beyond the idea stage. 

    I've contacted Nauticam engineers and inquired whether they had anything in the works for the S16-55 G, since it's release.They said they had no plans at the moment but would bring it up at the next design meeting. I remember when they came out with the two part port for the Sony/Metabones/Canon 60 macro set-up.  They're a great company and I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with a solution in the future. 

    Hope this info helps those who want to go beyond the standard configurations and continue using Sony APS-C.

    Contact me directly if you need any info on any of the modifications I made.

    Marshall

    Sony a6500 with Modified 4.33.jpg

  4. 2 hours ago, Marsh said:

    I'm currently looking into a N85 to N120 adapter to add to the N85 to N100 adapter that I use with the S90 macro.  Looking at the possibility of using the 4/4.33 inch N120 dome in place of the N85 4.33. This could potentially replace the Sony 18-55 Kit lens with the new Sony 16-55 f2.8 "G" lens for much higher IQ. The lens is to physically too wide for the N85 port and would require a two part dome set-up that they have used before.  Lots of hurdles to jump through in zoom control and other issues,  but mostly the cost of the gear, so it may be a while, if ever,  before it moves beyond the idea stage. 

    I'm not a Nauticam user, but I thought that N85 stood for 85mm diameter of the port mount? The 16-55mm f/2.8 is not that big around - spec sheet has it at 73mm, which is barely larger than 10-18mm's 70mm, and smaller than 90mm's 79mm. As far as housing it goes, I'd be a lot more worried about the significant distance it extends to zoom - going by the photos, it looks like it goes from 100mm collapsed to something like 150mm extended, which has major ramifications on both flat and dome ports. At the very least, you'd need a much larger dome than 4.33" to keep it from bumping into the glass when extended and/or vignetting when collapsed.

  5. Barmaglot,

    Yes,  you are correct, those are exactly the issues that need to be dealt with.  Until I get some of the gear to measure, it's hard to say what will work.

    In regards to the N85 nomenclature, yes it does stand for the mm size of the housing opening for the ports, but not the ID of the ports themselves that the lens must fit through.  The first port flange design (that the 4.33 is manufactured from)  used parts and mechanical connections , which has an ID of 70mm.  The mini-extensions that followed use the same design, but Nauticam enlarged it by 2mm to a 72mm ID.  The latest Nauticam mono-flange design design (no mechanical parts/connections) that they created to accommodate fatter lens and gears (like the S10-18) is a whooping 77mm. Unfortunately, if you buy the 4.33 and mini-extensions today, they still incorporate the older design. It appears Nauticam doesn't don't want to redesign their machining process for earlier ports. Because of this,  I've had to make custom zoom gears out of 70 x 1mm titanium tubing with timing belts for the Ziess 16-70 and remove the shade mounts on the Zeiss 12 and Sigma 16 f1.4 to fit the 4.33.  Otherwise, all the lens (except Z12?), including focus/zoom gears, would have fit into the N85 4.33 if it had the newer 77mm flange mount,  perhaps even perhaps the S10-18. However, being a rectilinear zoom at 10mm most likely wouldn't work with the 4.33.  As you correctly pointed out, most WA rectiliniers do not play well in the corners, especially extreme WA.   Alex Mustards article and formula on using small micro domes for rectilinear WA's just barely met the specifications for the Z12 and the 4.33. I was surprised I got such good performance in this respect.  Just lucky the optics worked, especially with CFWA. Fitting the Z12 into the 4.33 was an engineering task that Zeiss helped me with. 

    As far as lens design goes on the new Sony G, as you pointed out, the length at it's long end might be problematic.  However,  both the Sony 18-55 Kit and Zeiss 16-70 extend their lens barrels in the same manner.  The Zeiss being a longer lens at 16-70mm has an extension of 44mm from it's 16mm position and this works perfectly in the 4.33: the 16mm end is positioned optically correct for WA with no vignetting and the long extension comes within 2mm of the face of the dome which works out perfect for using a diopter for SM.  However, for whatever reason, the optics of the Z16-70 do not play well with my CMC-1 or other high power diopters, even though a +5 works fine. The Sony Kit 18-55 doesn't have these issues and works perfectly with the CMC-1 in all respects, so I tend to use it over the Z16-70 for a single dive lens for CWFA and SM, even though I miss the extra 2mm of WA. Moreover, the Sony kit has a very short minimum focusing distance, compared to the Z16-70, which gives it an advantage in CFWA.  The S16-55G would be perfect if it had a similar minimum focus distance. It would give perhaps the same macro IQ as the much heavier S90G M at a more medium macro range and provide razor sharp corners at 16mm WA. As you pointed out on your above lens post, the longer S90 macro is great for SM, but one has to put a lot of water between it and the subject if shooting anything larger.  

    Presently, the 73mm girth of the new S16-55G will require a two part port since it doesn't appear that Nauticam will change their machining design of the 4.33 port.  I may call the dealers and have them check for me since it's been a while, but last year when I checked, they said the flange was still the same design with the ID at 70mm. The 50mm extension of the S16-55G you refer to might be handled okay by the N120 4/4.33 dome since it's only a few mm more than the extension of the Z16-70. Until I get my hands on the new lens, I won't know what the actual extension is? The back of the new S16-55G lens will fit through the mini-extensions, so it's possible to fine tune the lens position in the port by the use of mini-extensions at the housing body. I'd love to see Nauticam create a port similar to their 4" semi-WA port # 36137 (for the S18-55 Kit with it's attachable 67mm swing mount for macro) for the new S16-55G.  It would solve the corner and extension issues you speak of and make things a lot simpler.

    I just don't have the funds to play around with the modification idea for now, as a new lens and adapters would cost $1,900 +.  Not to mention the engineering of getting the knobs on the adapters to work with the zoom and/or focus barrels. The housing gear system can only handle a 70mm OD which works with the titanium tubing and narrow lens,  but it cannot be adopted to fatter lens. If I come across some inexpensive used gear, I might have a go at it with the two part port system as mentioned earlier, but for now the set-up I have works great. 

    I apologize for the length of this response :-) , but it addresses some of the technical issues for such modifications if one is interested in a small travel rig with the best Sony lens.  Those who want more specific information, please contact me directly through the message board. 

    Marshall

     

  6. Reading Marsh's post about shoe-horning lenses into non supported domes makes me happy I went with m43 where just about all the lens choices are available and work out of the box with a zoom gear already engineered and plenty of dome choices already sorted out .:D.  With the EM-1 MkII the image quality is very close particularly if I do my bit and expose well  and it all just works.

  7. The M43 equivalent of that new Sony lens would be 12-41mm f/2 - where is that lens sold, and what domes/extensions/gears support it? Yes, there is the Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8, but the APS-C counterpart of that is Zeiss 16-70mm f/4, which has been available for about six years now, and is supported by pretty much all housing manufacturers.

  8. On 10/20/2019 at 8:07 PM, Barmaglot said:

    I've put close to a hundred dives on my A6xxx Salted Line housing over the past year without any significant issues. The zoom gear for 10-18mm f/4 lens is fiddly to set up, but reliable when properly positioned. I did have a problem with left strobe not firing properly (the fiber optic ports are slightly offset from the camera flash and use a reflector to guide the light) but switching to multicore fiber optic cables (from Nitescuba on Aliexpress) resolved that completely - I'm 40 dives into my current trip with zero strobe troubles.

    What strobes are you shooting with this? I just ordered the same housing and curious to what strobes people are having luck shooting with it. 

  9. On 8/23/2019 at 6:35 AM, Placebo365 said:

    Hi Dave, yeah sure, here are a few.  Like I say, taken on the A6000, Sigma 19mm f2.8 lens, Meikon housing, 1 strobe (InonZ330, some of them may have been taken with one Sea&SeaYs-02 strobe before I had the Inon).  I've got a Meikon wet lens attached to the housing.  The A6000 is 1.5 crop, therefore the Sigma lens is effectively about 28mm, but the wet lens widens it a bit, I'm guessing to about 20 or 22mm?? Not sure.  Anyway, it's a total workhorse.  Been used for I'd say about 600 dives over the last 3 years, as well as daily blasted on land.  I dread to think how many clicks its done and (touch wood) it's still going.  People argue that the Sony's have that 'weird colour science' but I've found it's totally fixable in LR.  Here are a link to some sample images... (can't upload them direct here as it's saying I can only upload max 0.98mb.

    Sample images

    **edit** Oh and forgot to mention re video, obviously there's no 4k but it does have zebras which I use constantly and it absolutely enables you to nail exposure every time.  No complaints about the auto focus either.  

     

     

    I look forward to the day I'm shooting this quality with my a6000! Beautiful work. 

  10. 6 hours ago, Russwalters said:

    What strobes are you shooting with this? I just ordered the same housing and curious to what strobes people are having luck shooting with it. 

    I use a pair of SeaFrogs ST-100 Pros, but I'm not particularly happy with them - when triggered by fiber optics, they function as TTL-only, without compensation, so they're basically bulkier YS-03s. They do have modeling lights, but after a year, the magnet switches controlling them have corroded and I can't engage them anymore. I have pre-ordered a pair of Retra Pros in December 2018; those should (hopefully) ship soon and provide a significant improvement.

  11. 12 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

    I use a pair of SeaFrogs ST-100 Pros, but I'm not particularly happy with them - when triggered by fiber optics, they function as TTL-only, without compensation, so they're basically bulkier YS-03s. They do have modeling lights, but after a year, the magnet switches controlling them have corroded and I can't engage them anymore. I have pre-ordered a pair of Retra Pros in December 2018; those should (hopefully) ship soon and provide a significant improvement.

    Oh awesome, the Retra should be a great addition. I'm looking at the Inon Z330's - do you know the best way to trigger those? Would the housing support those? 

  12. 1 hour ago, Russwalters said:

    Oh awesome, the Retra should be a great addition. I'm looking at the Inon Z330's - do you know the best way to trigger those? Would the housing support those? 

    You have basically three options for triggering:

    • Pop-up flash - simplest, doesn't cost you anything, but it's TTL-only so the pre-flash adds a little bit of lag even if you run the strobes in manual mode with pre-flash cancellation. It also limits your cycle time and reduces camera battery life.
    • Manual LED trigger - mostly DIY options, but some factory-made as well. Solves the lag, cycle time and battery drain issues, but removes the option of TTL.
    • TTL converter from UW-Technics. Best option, as it gives you both manual and TTL options and has metering profiles for a variety of strobes, but also the most expensive, at $450 + shipping.

    As far as 'support' goes, the housing will work with any strobe that supports optical triggering, so Seacam 150Ds won't work, and Ikelite DS strobes will require an optical converter, but pretty much everything else is fair game.

  13. 49 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

    You have basically three options for triggering:

    • Pop-up flash - simplest, doesn't cost you anything, but it's TTL-only so the pre-flash adds a little bit of lag even if you run the strobes in manual mode with pre-flash cancellation. It also limits your cycle time and reduces camera battery life.
    • Manual LED trigger - mostly DIY options, but some factory-made as well. Solves the lag, cycle time and battery drain issues, but removes the option of TTL.
    • TTL converter from UW-Technics. Best option, as it gives you both manual and TTL options and has metering profiles for a variety of strobes, but also the most expensive, at $450 + shipping.

    As far as 'support' goes, the housing will work with any strobe that supports optical triggering, so Seacam 150Ds won't work, and Ikelite DS strobes will require an optical converter, but pretty much everything else is fair game.

    A strobe like the Inon z330 would do both manual and TTL though, correct? 

  14. 31 minutes ago, Russwalters said:

    A strobe like the Inon z330 would do both manual and TTL though, correct? 

    It will, although if you trigger off the camera flash, you'll need to enable pre-flash cancellation, as the camera pre-flash cannot be turned off.

  15. 2 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

    It will, although if you trigger off the camera flash, you'll need to enable pre-flash cancellation, as the camera pre-flash cannot be turned off.

    If you aren't triggering off of the camera flash and no other sync port, what would you trigger from? I'm shotting an a6000. Sorry for a lot of super newbie questions... the whole flash syncing thing seems way more complicated to me than I know it is. 

  16. 37 minutes ago, Russwalters said:

    If you aren't triggering off of the camera flash and no other sync port, what would you trigger from? I'm shotting an a6000. Sorry for a lot of super newbie questions... the whole flash syncing thing seems way more complicated to me than I know it is. 

    You can use one of those: https://uwtechnics.com/index.php/online-store/ttl-converters/for-sony

    It plugs into the flash hot shoe on the camera and has LEDs that go into fiber optic ports. The camera detects it as a TTL-capable external flash and acts accordingly, while the converter flashes its LEDs to trigger your strobes. The built-in pop-up flash stays down if you use it.

    Edited by Barmaglot
  17. 11 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

    You can use one of those: https://uwtechnics.com/index.php/online-store/ttl-converters/for-sony

    It plugs into the flash hot shoe on the camera and has LEDs that go into fiber optic ports. The camera detects it as a TTL-capable external flash and acts accordingly, while the converter flashes its LEDs to trigger your strobes. The built-in pop-up flash stays down if you use it.

    Got it. This is super helpful, and absolutely something I didn't know existed! It looks like they are housing specific as well. Do you know if any would be compatible with the SeaFrogs?

  18. 1 minute ago, Russwalters said:

    Got it. This is super helpful, and absolutely something I didn't know existed! It looks like they are housing specific as well. Do you know if any would be compatible with the SeaFrogs?

    Not right now, but one should be available soon. I have a pre-production version for SeaFrogs Salted Line, and it has some fitting issues, but Pavel has indicated that a version that should fit properly is in the final stages of production.

  19. 4 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

    Not right now, but one should be available soon. I have a pre-production version for SeaFrogs Salted Line, and it has some fitting issues, but Pavel has indicated that a version that should fit properly is in the final stages of production.

    Amazing. Do you mind keeping me in mind when you hear of it being available? I would be really interested. Can't thank you enough for your help as I'm trying to figure out what in the world I'm getting myself into! 

  20. Hi,

    In terms of  using the Sony a6000 vs the 6500, all I can share is my experience with my Sony a6000 .  If you are doing more photography, then the a6000 , considering you own it already does a very good job at shooting with or without strobes and it can certainly generate  overall great pictures if you know how to use it.   It has some good lense options and even though it limits to 1/160 for sync speed, you can capture moving object not too fast , pretty good.   The video is the big difference in the cameras  4k (6500) and a great variety of frame rates and bits it can capture but you can still get some very good   normal HD videos with the a6000 .    Faster overall focus and better battery  life are going to be better with the 6500 but you just get a few extra batts for the a6000 and you can do fine.  I would say if you want to do more video invest in the 6500 if not the a6000 is fine.  I might be upgrading as well so I will probably be selling my nauticam a6000 gear.

Turtle

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