Inon z330 vs retra pro

I recall reading Retra stopped publishing guide numbers are they were effectively meaningless underwater.  The tests Backscatter posted a while back showed both INON and S&S  dropped power rapidly  away from the centre and needed diffusers to even out the beam, so they are only much brighter in the centre of the un-diffused beam.  Diffused they are still brighter but much closer to the pack and more even.

On the topic of guide numbers Retra quoted a guide number of 30 on their original flash with a 110° beam.  Both the original and the new prime quote a flash output of 100Ws.  The Pro is 50% more powerful at 150 Ws.  The Prime and Pro both have 130° beams so the Prime is maybe not quite as bright at full power as the the original Retra which had a 110° beam.  As the prime is putting the same light into a wider beam.  The new flashes are supposed to be more even though.

This link from Backscatter shows the power of the original Retra is more than competitive with the YS-D2: https://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Retra-Flash-Underwater-Strobe-Test-and-Review

The Retra Prime should be below the line for the original and the Pro above the line.  It would be good to see some test points added for the new strobes.

I recall reading Retra stopped publishing guide numbers are they were effectively meaningless underwater.  The tests Backscatter posted a while back showed both INON and S&S  dropped power rapidly  away from the centre and needed diffusers to even out the beam, so they are only much brighter in the centre of the un-diffused beam.  Diffused they are still brighter but much closer to the pack and more even.
On the topic of guide numbers Retra quoted a guide number of 30 on their original flash with a 110° beam.  Both the original and the new prime quote a flash output of 100Ws.  The Pro is 50% more powerful at 150 Ws.  The Prime and Pro both have 130° beams so the Prime is maybe not quite as bright at full power as the the original Retra which had a 110° beam.  As the prime is putting the same light into a wider beam.  They are however more even. 
If I were to hazard a guess I'd say the power output of the Retra original and the Z330/YS-D2 are very similar but the beam of the retra is more even.  which means more light in the outer edges of the Retra which when it comes down to it is what you are trying use in UW shots as you try to avoid backscatter.    It would be nice to have data from the new Retras added to Backscatter's results.

10 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

If you look at the construction the front is opaque effectively working already as diffuser

If you're referring to Retras, their front element is most definitely not opaque.

If you're referring to Retras, their front element is most definitely not opaque.

Opacity has a % is it clear on your opinion?


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1 minute ago, Interceptor121 said:

If you look at the build the area where the lamp is located is clear. Around it there is an opaque ring acting as diffuser. I wonder what is the idea behind this

That white ring is not opaque glass, it's matte white plastic behind the glass acting as a reflector. If you look at the strobe from the side, you can see that the glass is completely clear - the only area that is just moderately frosted is the very center, in front of the LED. You can kind of see it here. I guess you could call it a diffusing reflector?

That white ring is not opaque glass, it's matte white plastic behind the glass acting as a reflector. If you look at the strobe from the side, you can see that the glass is completely clear - the only area that is just moderately frosted is the very center, in front of the LED. You can kind of see it here. I guess you could call it a diffusing reflector?

A similar white ring is pretty ubiquitous in video lights that need to produce a wide beam with soft edges, as opposed to conical mirror-finished reflectors in narrow-beam general purpose lights. I'm guessing the engineers at Retra chose this design for much the same reason - take the light that the tube sends backwards and scatter it to soften the edges, without using a frontal diffuser that would absorb light and reduce overall strobe power. Of course snap-on additional diffusers are available.

If you come to Eilat, I could loan you my pair to play with

A similar white ring is pretty ubiquitous in video lights that need to produce a wide beam with soft edges, as opposed to conical mirror-finished reflectors in narrow-beam general purpose lights. I'm guessing the engineers at Retra chose this design for much the same reason - take the light that the tube sends backwards and scatter it to soften the edges, without using a frontal diffuser that would absorb light and reduce overall strobe power. Of course snap-on additional diffusers are available.
If you come to Eilat, I could loan you my pair to play with [emoji6]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:51 AM, TimG said:

On the photosensors issue, I didn't notice any difference between shooting with the Inons or Retras on TTL or Manual using the same LED trigger in my Subal housing.

Hi Tim,

How did you change between TTL and Manual mode? On my current setup I have a TTL converter in the housing setup to TTL setting and I change to manual on the strobes themselves. I've read that on the retra this might be an issue, at least with a nauticam nikon setup, switching between manual and TTL on the strobe while having the ttl converter in the housing setup to TTL. 

4 hours ago, deliamaria said:

Hi Tim,

How did you change between TTL and Manual mode? On my current setup I have a TTL converter in the housing setup to TTL setting and I change to manual on the strobes themselves. I've read that on the retra this might be an issue, at least with a nauticam nikon setup, switching between manual and TTL on the strobe while having the ttl converter in the housing setup to TTL. 

Hi Delia, Which TTL converter/trigger do you have is it the Nauticam TTL version?  Are you saying you set the trigger to TTL internally?  It looks like there are a number of options for manual shooting with this trigger.

5 hours ago, deliamaria said:

I've read that on the retra this might be an issue, at least with a nauticam nikon setup, switching between manual and TTL on the strobe while having the ttl converter in the housing setup to TTL. 

With Uwtechnics trigger / converter, you just have to set the dial to position 6 (Retra) and select the mode (Manual, TTL, HHS) on the Retra Strobe. It is super easy.

20 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

Hi Delia, Which TTL converter/trigger do you have is it the Nauticam TTL version?  Are you saying you set the trigger to TTL internally?  It looks like there are a number of options for manual shooting with this trigger.

20 hours ago, Joss said:

With Uwtechnics trigger / converter, you just have to set the dial to position 6 (Retra) and select the mode (Manual, TTL, HHS) on the Retra Strobe. It is super easy.

I have the nauticam TTL converter, na-26308.

My worry is that I have to change the TTL converter internally to manual for the strobes to shoot manual. I like the flexibility to change between TTL and manual during the dive.

Looking at the manual for the Nauticam converter it has several methods for going to manual , including controlled manual by changing settings on the camera and just switching to manual with pre-flash on the flashes.  You should check how the flashes will behave in response to doing this - you are relying on the flash to ignore the pre flash and only flash on the main flash.  The manual is here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/19Qry6uWdryAa3EVv1PCEDZLz7FaU2Qy6/view

I went through this debate myself, I talked to a friend and decided to go with the Z330s. The main thing was reliability, Inons are well tested while Retras, as amazing as they make it sound, are still fairly unproven on a heavily produced scale. Yes the Z330s have less even beam, with more brightness in the center and a faster dropoff. But I found some nice looking aftermarket dome diffusers I am going to try out which should hopefully make it much closer of a comparison. Inons are quite a bit cheaper, less battery consumption, and quickly available at a local distributor. One of my friend's other points was that sure, if you are Alex Mustard, get the very best quality of light you can. And of course that is better. But it does cost more and has more reliability risks (in my opinion). And there are many other areas I need to improve on before I should really be obsessing about the perfect beam quality. So now I have two Z330s and I am just waiting for the dome diffusers to see how they do!

"I don't need good quality of light because I am not a good photographer" is not a good argument when choosing a light or strobe.

@Balage_diver wrote nicely that the Z-330 will give you better performance if you are primarily shooting TTL which probably means that you mainly shoot macro. The Retra however will give better results when shooting with manual power (especially wide angle) and besides this they offer a range of accessories to modify the light beam for macro and other types of shooting situations. 

The Retra Flash PRO costs almost twice(!) the Z-330. That's because it packs more power (that extra power is spread over a wider area making the Retra easier to position in wide angle) and offers a long list of unique and helpful features: leakage alarm, battery indication, HSS, smartphone connectivity, firmware updates, etc. Besides this the build quality and appearance are on a much higher level with the Retra. I don't know if you are into that kind of thing but handling each of these products is a very different experience.

Regarding reliability I have no doubts about the Retra because it is their second generation strobe and they offer 2 years of warranty instead of the standard 1 year. If you ever email them you will find they respond rapidly and are eager to solve any issue or question you might have about their products.

The Z-330 and the Retra Flash are very different beasts. I think you need to choose based on what your primary focus in underwater photography is and especially(!) your budget.

"I don't need good quality of light because I am not a good photographer" is not a good argument when choosing a light or strobe.
@Balage_diver wrote nicely that the Z-330 will give you better performance if you are primarily shooting TTL which probably means that you mainly shoot macro. The Retra however will give better results when shooting with manual power (especially wide angle) and besides this they offer a range of accessories to modify the light beam for macro and other types of shooting situations. 
The Retra Flash PRO costs almost twice(!) the Z-330. That's because it packs more power (that extra power is spread over a wider area making the Retra easier to position in wide angle) and offers a long list of unique and helpful features: leakage alarm, battery indication, HSS, smartphone connectivity, firmware updates, etc. Besides this the build quality and appearance are on a much higher level with the Retra. I don't know if you are into that kind of thing but handling each of these products is a very different experience.
Regarding reliability I have no doubts about the Retra because it is their second generation strobe and they offer 2 years of warranty instead of the standard 1 year. If you ever email them you will find they respond rapidly and are eager to solve any issue or question you might have about their products.
The Z-330 and the Retra Flash are very different beasts. I think you need to choose based on what your primary focus in underwater photography is and especially(!) your budget.

I never said that I am not a good photographer and so I didn't need the best quality of light. What I meant was that there are many other important things that will have a larger impact on your image quality than whether you use a top of the line strobe or a premium strobe. Because we are not talking about some little YS-01 or sealife strobe here, the Z330 is a very good product. 

The most important thing is knowing how to use your gear, of course it's better to have a higher quality of light, but how big of a difference is there really when using these two strobes underwater, compared to the cost?

I am still using my old 16 MP Oly OM-D E-M1 and a couple of YS-D1s and I regularly get much better results than people with much better/fancier camera setups. Knowing your gear and using it the best you can will take you much further than just  buying the latest greatest stuff. That will help too, but you don't need the latest and greatest to win awards.

Sometimes I feel people get too caught up in comparing every minute spec and every little nuance of image quality when that isn't what matters the most. 

I agree in full sorry I was repeating someone else comment
I find that people spend a lot of energy complaining and fighting their gear instead of learning how to use it
With regards to Inon my recommendation would be to adopt a thicker diffuser than their 0.3 because in my pool tests with their stock diffuser on the two bulbs are still visible


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Interceptor121 sorry I was also replying to that person, not to you, it sounds like we are are both on the same page. I'm new to the forum so just figuring out how to use it. I agree with you on the diffusers,the ones that come with the Z330s could be stronger. I ordered some from GlowDive, they look better, hopefully they perform well!