Advice on selecting a Camera System

16 minutes ago, dreifish said:

Tim, you might be wrong on this one

It wouldn't be a first 

... although I don't think I said (or didn't meant to) that the Retras were more powerful than the Inons 330s. I really don't know.  It all seems a bit subjective to me once you get underwater!

1 hour ago, dreifish said:

Tim, you might be wrong on this one, especially in reference to the new Inon z330s Mark II. According to Reef Photo & Video's testing, they're about 1-2 stops more powerful than the Retras ProX.

https://reefphoto.com/blogs/trending/how-good-are-the-current-strobes-for-light-intensity-and-coverage

Wish I'd seen this review before buying my Retras

some would claim that power is not everything. the Retra has a more even coverage and you don't use the centre of the beam so much, the edges of the beam look a lot closer in output between the Retra and other strobe options.

The article by reef photo offers somewhat distorted images of the light output and no actual measurements.

A few years ago we compared flashguns in a comprehensive lighting test where we photographed and measured each flashgun at 15 different points. The results are presented here: https://www.retra-uwt.com/pages/flashgun-light-comparison

32 minutes ago, Oskar@RetraUWT said:

The article by reef photo offers somewhat distorted images of the light output and no actual measurements.

A few years ago we compared flashguns in a comprehensive lighting test where we photographed and measured each flashgun at 15 different points. The results are presented here: https://www.retra-uwt.com/pages/flashgun-light-comparison

I would argue that your charts only show the distribution of light they say nothing on the peak intensity

So your 0 point is not the same as you never measured that intensity in the centre

You could take reef photo nef files and run then through a false color or a waveform and you would actually obtain similar information terms of intensity drop

17 hours ago, dreifish said:

Tim, you might be wrong on this one, especially in reference to the new Inon z330s Mark II. According to Reef Photo & Video's testing, they're about 1-2 stops more powerful than the Retras ProX.

https://reefphoto.com/blogs/trending/how-good-are-the-current-strobes-for-light-intensity-and-coverage

Wish I'd seen this review before buying my Retras

The new design of the Z330 is likely to give a much better outcome of the previous transparent cover. The reality is that the inon light bulbs show their shape so having that solution is necessary with the old version you needed a diffuser to even out and would loose power

So I would say the Z330 V2 is likely to have an edge on the others

From what I see also I am very happy with my YS-D2J great ergonomics, enough power and flat front which means I can put filters and do what I want and also remove the diffuser to get a narrower beam

You do not always need soft wide beams depending on what you are trying to do

2 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

I would argue that your charts only show the distribution of light they say nothing on the peak intensity

So your 0 point is not the same as you never measured that intensity in the centre

 

Incorrect, the last graph shows all flashguns at their maximum power: https://www.retra-uwt.com/pages/flashgun-light-comparison

Incorrect, the last graph shows all flashguns at their maximum power: https://www.retra-uwt.com/pages/flashgun-light-comparison

It doesn’t say what the light intensity is however it does show that the retra strobe has less power than z330 and ys-d2 (unclear if those measurements were without diffuser) I have to assume the reference is the inon

By your second zone they are pretty much aligned note that corresponds to 90 degrees coverage

So what reef photo concludes is aligned to your own tests i.e. both the ys-d2 and z330 are more powerful

The new v2 version of the inon strobe will further improve performance at the edges

However I have always wondered if the tests on the sea and sea and z330 were with diffuser or not

You could clarify that perhaps

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The graphs are showing unaltered light output from all flashguns which is without diffusers.

48 minutes ago, Oskar@RetraUWT said:

The graphs are showing unaltered light output from all flashguns which is without diffusers.

Thanks for confirming that

I looked at your data time ago. If I understand well the image of the strobes is taken so that the power is the same at the center

So I looked at my strobes sea and sea YS-D2 cropped the test shots and used photoshop to do some analysis

This is the Retra Pro without diffuser

And this is my sea and sea YS-D2 also without diffuser

I loaded those crops as layer in photoshop and I subtracted the sea and sea from the retra pro in effect I can see that there is a difference there are lighter areas where the retra pro is brighter 

However when I look at the sea and sea with 100 diffuser

I load it as layer and I subtract from the retra pro I obtain this result

The frame looks pretty dark as if there were no differences between the two cases

So I used the sample to see what RGB values I get and enlarged the image to 400%

There is a tiny circular halo midway between the strobe and end of the frame where luma measure at best 10/255

If I subtract the retra from the sea and sea instead I have a little difference in the centre around the same 10/255 in total

It would appear that in your test conditions the differences between the retra pro and the YS-D2 are substantial but when you use the YS-D2 with the diffuser the differences are negligible. So my conclusion was that in those test conditions a powerful simple strobe with a plastic diffuser would perform quite well. If we consider that your peak measures indicate a difference of 1 stop between the retra pro and the sea and sea and the diffuser power loss is less than one stop than I would argue the table would turn.

Tests of diffusers on land indicate that the spreading of the beam is quite effective using simple opal acrylic with various level of opacity. This simple concept that is extensively used also in commercal lighting seems to apply here as well.

As flat strobes are always used with diffusers I do not see the point of comparing your device that has an opaque cover on the bulb with others that have a clear front.

I also have to say that applying a diffuser to your strobe seems to have zero benefit in terms of light distribution because the strobe itself has in effect an integrated diffuser by design

There is no opaque cover/integrated diffuser on the Retra Flash PRO/Prime or the X models, the front port is completely transparent. An unaltered beam without hotspots and a wide coverage is our goal.

When applying a diffuser to an already wide beam the result will not be obvious on a flat subject because the main difference is in the way the shadows are produced:

5 hours ago, Oskar@RetraUWT said:

There is no opaque cover/integrated diffuser on the Retra Flash PRO/Prime or the X models, the front port is completely transparent. An unaltered beam without hotspots and a wide coverage is our goal.

When applying a diffuser to an already wide beam the result will not be obvious on a flat subject because the main difference is in the way the shadows are produced:

The combination appears to work well as you can't see the element in the images but I would be careful with claims that other strobes are less powerful than yours are clearly that is not the case looking at your own test shots and neither there seems to be a vast difference in coverage angle as demonsrated just before. Then each person can evaluate what matters to them

But at the end reefphoto is not far from truth the Inon Z330 type 2 may the most powerful strobe out there without diffuser although their shots are misaligned and the incident angle also changes. 

If someone sends me some strobes I would be very happy to perform some tests in a dark pool that would actually be revealing. When I tested my own strobes I could see that the angle of coverage with diffuser in water is actually higher than on land I presume because light is transmitted by scattering using a diffuser and no longer travels as 'discrete' beams sort of say