WWL-1 vs UWL-09F (acrylic)

I wouldn't  place the WWL in the same basket as the UWL-09

I have no experience with the UWL-09, but I did shoot available light with the WWL-1 on full frame for a year (usually around f/5.6-f/8), and it performs way better than that. Honestly the edges are so poor in your shot it makes me wonder if something is wrong with the positioning of the lens or something, but it could also be that it just doesn't perform very well. Either way, I'm sure you'd be happier with the performance of the WWL-1.

2 hours ago, Ben-Terje said:

I use the Seafrogs housing with the flat port made “exclusively” for the 28-60mm. Although we cannot always trust Seafrogs on which lenses works with their ports, it looks like the 28-60 fits well in this case (close to the glass). For me it seems like the WWL-1 works way better on FF than the UWL-09, but I’m still not 100 % sure.

Assume you are aware that the bayonet systems don't work with the sea frogs ports, but the m67 screw does - this means you need the original WWL-1 as it's the one with the m67 thread.  If it fits up close that's really the only requirement, you can use it it still if it's not close enough, you only need to zoom in a little to overcome any vignetting if that occurs.

1 hour ago, ChrisRoss said:

Assume you are aware that the bayonet systems don't work with the sea frogs ports, but the m67 screw does - this means you need the original WWL-1 as it's the one with the m67 thread.  If it fits up close that's really the only requirement, you can use it it still if it's not close enough, you only need to zoom in a little to overcome any vignetting if that occurs.

Yes, I know that the WWL-1B only have the bayonet mount, but I thought it was possible to use the M67 converter, or am I wrong?

https://www.nauticam.com/products/m67-to-bayonet-converter-ii

42 minutes ago, Ben-Terje said:

Yes, I know that the WWL-1B only have the bayonet mount, but I thought it was possible to use the M67 converter, or am I wrong? 

https://www.nauticam.com/products/m67-to-bayonet-converter-ii 

Unfortunately no, it's not possible to fit that converter on a SeaFrogs port. See this post by @newdiver:

View archived post in: WWL-1B on Seafrogs Housing

The 67mm threads on the adapter are inside a narrow groove, and the port needs to have them on the appropriately sized lip that will fit into the groove. SeaFrogs ports have a wide flange there, which makes it impossible to mount the Nauticam adapter. This is how a port needs to look to be compatible with the adapter:

If the front lip is any wider, then it won't fit.

One possible alternative, by the way, is Weefine WFL-09S/Kraken KRL-09S. It's a sort-of-copy of Nauticam MWL-1 and gives you a 155 degree FoV on a 60mm FF-equivalent lens. Weefine lists Sony 28-60mm as compatible. Just this morning, I was chatting with an acquaintance who picked up a 28-60mm + port for use with his A7S III in SeaFrogs housing, and we have a mutual friend who has a Kraken KRL-09S, so I suggested to him that he test that combination - waiting to hear back from him on the results.

I do have the seafrogs, but I also have WWL-1B. I did not realize WWL-1B would not fit Seafrogs when I got it. Now I have a Seafrogs housing for sale. I will be taking pictures and videos with the nauticam housing

Most of use who are members of the industry I think would agree that Nauticam's water contact optics are designed and tested too the very highest standards using state of the art lens software and in water testing standards. If you disagree please let use know.

Nauticam's WWL-1 was the first wide angle water contact optic and it in fact preforms best with full frame, high MP sensors. I know this because Nauticam has listed this statement on the description page for the WWL-1/1B

COMPATIBILITY

Wet lenses have traditionally been an accessory geared toward compact cameras, but Nauticam set out from the very beginning to support a wider range of systems, with larger sensor sizes.

Most impressive is the outstanding performance available with the full frame Sony A7 series cameras using the Sony 28mm f/2 Prime lens. In our tests, this combo out-performed all of the Sony wide angle lenses behind dome ports, and is especially well matched to the demanding 61 megapixel sensor in Sony A7R IV. 

If you believe as I do that Nauticam's water contact optics are of the highest quality then it would follow that you would except the above statement to be true. Notice that the lens and camera system they chose is from Sony which should put to rest the premiss that somehow Sony cameras and lenses for some reason don't produce "outstanding performance". 

These tests were made prior to the release of the Sony FE 28-60mm zoom and the WACP-1 which was designed solely for full frame.

The statement above that you can buy two AOI-UWL-09 lenses for the price of one WWL-1 is not even close. The WWL-1B retails for $1595.00 US and the UWL-09 with float collar retails for $1174.00 a $421.00 difference hardly close to double. The UWL-09 will work on full frame but is meant for smaller sensor cameras and I would not consider the lens for full frame. I did however use the UWL-09 with a M43 camera and it works well on the smaller and lower res sensors. 

Regarding size, the UWL-09 with the float collar is larger than the WWL-1B and about the same as the as WWL-1 with its separate float collar.

Regarding housings for Sony full frame cameras with support for the Sony FE 28-60mm/gear and Sony FE 28mm F/2 for WWL-1 Nauticam has ports for both that have the 67mm thread and support both the bayonet and thread-in WWL-1. The 28-60 port is N100-45 and the 28mm F/2 port is N100-32.

Isotta has the H50-B120 flat port for the 28mm F/2 with 67mm thread that may/may not work with WWL-1 but no notches to support the bayonet mount for WWL-1B.

Marelux has a flat port and gear for the Sony FE 28-60mm designed to work with the bayonet mount so compatible with WWL-1 or WWL-1B.

Bottom line is that the WWL-1 works well with full frame and sub full frame while the UWL-09 is more suited too sub-full frame.    

20 minutes ago, Phil Rudin said:

Most of use who are members of the industry I think would agree that Nauticam's water contact optics are designed and tested too the very highest standards using state of the art lens software and in water testing standards. If you disagree please let use know.

Nauticam's WWL-1 was the first wide angle water contact optic and it in fact preforms best with full frame, high MP sensors. I know this because Nauticam has listed this statement on the description page for the WWL-1/1B

COMPATIBILITY

Wet lenses have traditionally been an accessory geared toward compact cameras, but Nauticam set out from the very beginning to support a wider range of systems, with larger sensor sizes.

Most impressive is the outstanding performance available with the full frame Sony A7 series cameras using the Sony 28mm f/2 Prime lens. In our tests, this combo out-performed all of the Sony wide angle lenses behind dome ports, and is especially well matched to the demanding 61 megapixel sensor in Sony A7R IV. 

If you believe as I do that Nauticam's water contact optics are of the highest quality then it would follow that you would except the above statement to be true. Notice that the lens and camera system they chose is from Sony which should put to rest the premiss that somehow Sony cameras and lenses for some reason don't produce "outstanding performance". 

These tests were made prior to the release of the Sony FE 28-60mm zoom and the WACP-1 which was designed solely for full frame.

The statement above that you can buy two AOI-UWL-09 lenses for the price of one WWL-1 is not even close. The WWL-1B retails for $1595.00 US and the UWL-09 with float collar retails for $1174.00 a $421.00 difference hardly close to double. The UWL-09 will work on full frame but is meant for smaller sensor cameras and I would not consider the lens for full frame. I did however use the UWL-09 with a M43 camera and it works well on the smaller and lower res sensors. 

Regarding size, the UWL-09 with the float collar is larger than the WWL-1B and about the same as the as WWL-1 with its separate float collar.

Regarding housings for Sony full frame cameras with support for the Sony FE 28-60mm/gear and Sony FE 28mm F/2 for WWL-1 Nauticam has ports for both that have the 67mm thread and support both the bayonet and thread-in WWL-1. The 28-60 port is N100-45 and the 28mm F/2 port is N100-32.

Isotta has the H50-B120 flat port for the 28mm F/2 with 67mm thread that may/may not work with WWL-1 but no notches to support the bayonet mount for WWL-1B.

Marelux has a flat port and gear for the Sony FE 28-60mm designed to work with the bayonet mount so compatible with WWL-1 or WWL-1B.

Bottom line is that the WWL-1 works well with full frame and sub full frame while the UWL-09 is more suited too sub-full frame.    

 

Then I'll buy the WWL-1, and blame on you if the corners are crappy

To be serious, I've read many of your posts and I know you have a lot of experience with Nauticam wet lenses on Sony cameras, and I'm thankful that you share your great knowledge. Actually your review of the A7c with 28-60mm was the main reason I went with a wet lens - unfortunately the UWL-09...  I'm not familiar with the US prices, but at the time I bought it in Norway it was about half the price of the WWL-1. 

I do belive that Nauticam optics are of great quality, but in general I don't trust any manufacturer 100%, as they always want to sell their own products. Anyway, based on countless posts and reviews of the WWL-1 I've never doubted the quality of the WWL-1. My real question has been if the UWL-09 has the same quality (on a FF). Unfortunately I didn't manage to get a good enough answer before I ended up buying the UWL-09. After testing it with my A7s III with the 28-60mm I'm really disappointed. Now I really belive that the UWL-09 is not even close to the WWL-1 on a FF. 

Now, when I'm writing to an expert, I also want to tell that my goal is to find a setup for my A7s III that works with lower apertures (5.6-8 ish), because I only shoot in available light, and it's quite dark here in Norway at times. This is the reason I started looking at the wet lenses, as they are known to have great corner quality. I know I have to sacrifice some quality no matter which setup I choose at these apertures, but I didn't expect it to be as bad as my results with the UWL-09. I know that the WACP probably would be the perfect solution for me, but at the moment it's too expensive for my budget (I'm an amateur, and do photography as a hobby).

I would be very grateful if you could share some pictures taken at lower apertures with the WWL-1/B on a FF.

Bottom line for me - I will probably sell the UWL-09 and buy the WWL-1!  

(Sorry if my english is bad...)

7 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

Unfortunately no, it's not possible to fit that converter on a SeaFrogs port. See this post by @newdiver:

View archived post in: WWL-1B on Seafrogs Housing

The 67mm threads on the adapter are inside a narrow groove, and the port needs to have them on the appropriately sized lip that will fit into the groove. SeaFrogs ports have a wide flange there, which makes it impossible to mount the Nauticam adapter. This is how a port needs to look to be compatible with the adapter:

If the front lip is any wider, then it won't fit.

One possible alternative, by the way, is Weefine WFL-09S/Kraken KRL-09S. It's a sort-of-copy of Nauticam MWL-1 and gives you a 155 degree FoV on a 60mm FF-equivalent lens. Weefine lists Sony 28-60mm as compatible. Just this morning, I was chatting with an acquaintance who picked up a 28-60mm + port for use with his A7S III in SeaFrogs housing, and we have a mutual friend who has a Kraken KRL-09S, so I suggested to him that he test that combination - waiting to hear back from him on the results.

Ah, thanks for the information! 

I love this forum, so many great people that share their knowledge!

It would have been great to be able to use the bayonet mount, but it's not the end of the world if I can't. Luckily I haven't bought the lens yet :)  I will probably go for the original WWL-1 than. 

Will be interesting to hear about the results of the KRL-09S. The downside with this solution is that I wont get the opportunity to zoom. If he tests it, it would be nice if he also take som pictures at lower apertures. 

8 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

The statement above that you can buy two AOI-UWL-09 lenses for the price of one WWL-1 is not even close. The WWL-1B retails for $1595.00 US and the UWL-09 with float collar retails for $1174.00 a $421.00 difference hardly close to double.

https://www.bluewaterphotostore.com/aoi-uwl-09-wide-angle-lens

$700 marked down to $525. The float collar is another $45.

Perhaps you were referring to the AOI UWL-09 PRO, which has a glass front element rather than acrylic? That one does retail for over $1k.

You are correct, the one I tested and connected on was the Glass Pro model.