Updating "old" computers for image editing

Hi Chris

Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a backup device.

I'm looking at whether I can use, say, a 512GB internal (SSD) drive for all my applications etc - then have a 2TB+ (SSD?) drive externally to run my LR catalogue and images.

At the moment i have everything on one 3TB drive internally in my iMac.

Looking at the new Mac Mini and Studio specifications, a 3TB internal drive is no longer an option and moving beyond 512GB comes at crazy cost.

2 hours ago, TimG said:

Hi Chris

Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a backup device.

I'm looking at whether I can use, say, a 512GB internal (SSD) drive for all my applications etc - then have a 2TB+ (SSD?) drive externally to run my LR catalogue and images.

At the moment i have everything on one 3TB drive internally in my iMac.

Looking at the new Mac Mini and Studio specifications, a 3TB internal drive is no longer an option and moving beyond 512GB comes at crazy cost.

I don't agree with @makar0n on some point

First a NAS may sound a good idea however only when you are wired in. Real speed on wifi is much lower than theoretical when there are many devices. So that for me is not an option unless you can run a cable and you need 10 gbits to compare to a USB bus

Regarding SSD for external use I have a set up made like this (you will be shocked)

1 Mac Mini 2 TB HD running less than 1 TB used

1 external HDD in enclosure 16 TB Seagate enterprise 7200 rpm USB C gen1. Generally you don't need more than 250 MB/s and this device delivers them for picture it is more than adequate. I don't need all that space but it costs the same 8 or 16 TB

1 Back up disk HDD in enclosure 18 TB. Time machine of the lot.

1 G technology rugged SSD 2 TB I take this on diving trips for video as I have a macbook with 512 GB and I run out of space. This is also the video project disk. For video you do need fast sequential access. NVME disks get throttled by performance management and they are a waste of time bought and returned one that after getting hot despite cooling was running at 60 MB/s

1 Sandisk Extreme SSD 2TB same as above for photos. I actually do not need it as I wipe the laptop library and export the catalogue at the end of the trip. So this is really a back up plan currently full with a video project I have not archived. I probably do not need it 

1 portable HDD 2 TB to back up the laptop I only use it on trips to avoid the situation of the laptop broken/stolen

My general advice is:

1. If you run a mini don't invest in SSD value for money is poor and neither NVME get a solid physical hard disk for back ups and for media if you really want to have an SSD fine but HDD is ok. 

2. If you instead run out of a laptop definitely invest in SSD and another external drive for back ups can be 5400 rpm small form factor with no external power supply

I am just back from a trip and came back with 70 GB of photos in 3 days plus 120 GB of video for one event the import on the HDD was fast I used a memory card for transfer

The single most important factor for me is the speed of transfer into my workstation as SD cards do not go faster than 300 MB/s any disk faster is a waste anyway and to access a stack of 64 images it takes no time 

One weakness of my set up is a back up to store off site this is one step that protects your house going on fire. In terms of failure of HDD there is a daily back up and to have two disks failing is very rare

Thanks Massimo - this is really helpful stuff.

Do you keep your library on the external HDD in enclosure 16 TB Seagate enterprise 7200 rpm? 

And does this allow you fast access to any of the images in the library?

8 minutes ago, TimG said:

Thanks Massimo - this is really helpful stuff.

Do you keep your library on the external HDD in enclosure 16 TB Seagate enterprise 7200 rpm? 

And does this allow you fast access to any of the images in the library?

Yes I have the following on the external drive

Lightroom photo library last I checked is 1.1 TB

Apple photo library 200 GB

Final Cut Pro archives 2 TB

I can even run a video project from the HDD as it is fast enough to process prores video. But I use the SSD simply because it is quicker to copy in and generally contains WIP. When a video project is done with I consolidate media and move it to the HDD

The only disadvantage is noise as it is a physical disk especially when is accesses many images but it very very fast as I said 265 MB/s guaranteed. 

One very very important thing that you need to understand about lightroom is that the image files are essentially cold storage. You write them once and the edits are in the library together with the previews which is normally on your fast drive in my case my internal SSD

So the external drive is only used the first time to build the previews or when you develop an image then it becomes a read only

For bridge and Dxo programs that write sidecar files those are in the external drive so when you process them the program read the image and the sidecar here you need to have potentially faster access however again you will typically write once read many

Photoshop instead writes an individual file but normally you spend a lot of time on a single file so disk performance is not an issue

Knowing how those programs work changes the way you approach storage as I said the only application that requires performance is final cut pro and this is because I read files on the fly with no intermediates. If I used render files it would read and write a lot but this does not matter as I use the SSD for video

Hopefully this covers it

2 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

1 external HDD in enclosure 16 TB Seagate enterprise 7200 rpm USB C gen1. Generally you don't need more than 250 MB/s and this device delivers them for picture it is more than adequate. I don't need all that space but it costs the same 8 or 16 TB

1 Back up disk HDD in enclosure 18 TB. Time machine of the lot.

The Time Machine HDD can back up the 16TB Seagate (wirelessly) as long as the Seagate is plugged into the Mac Mini, right?

 
The Time Machine HDD can back up the 16TB Seagate (wirelessly) as long as the Seagate is plugged into the Mac Mini, right?

OK. Thanks for that.

I'm only adding maybe 5-10GB of images data at a time and I find wireless backup to Time Machine works fine with that.

OK. Thanks for that.
I'm only adding maybe 5-10GB of images data at a time and I find wireless backup to Time Machine works fine with that.

On 5/3/2022 at 10:58 PM, TimG said:

Hi Chris

Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a backup device.

I'm looking at whether I can use, say, a 512GB internal (SSD) drive for all my applications etc - then have a 2TB+ (SSD?) drive externally to run my LR catalogue and images.

At the moment i have everything on one 3TB drive internally in my iMac.

Looking at the new Mac Mini and Studio specifications, a 3TB internal drive is no longer an option and moving beyond 512GB comes at crazy cost.

Yeah the prices for bigger discs are highway robbery,  in Australia to upgrade from 512GB to 2 TB is $900.  A 4 TB Samsung hard disc is $520 and a 2 TB drive is $360.

You can use external storage if the interface is fast enough  maybe see if you can source a thunderbolt external drive casing and buy a SSD to go in it.

PS: this is another reason I want nothing to do with Mac.

3 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

PS: this is another reason I want nothing to do with Mac.

Tsk, you guys..... Luddites. 

Agreed on the pricing though. I'll follow up on the fast interface thing - - thanks

On 5/9/2022 at 3:47 AM, ChrisRoss said:

Yeah the prices for bigger discs are highway robbery,  in Australia to upgrade from 512GB to 2 TB is $900.  A 4 TB Samsung hard disc is $520 and a 2 TB drive is $360.

You can use external storage if the interface is fast enough  maybe see if you can source a thunderbolt external drive casing and buy a SSD to go in it.

PS: this is another reason I want nothing to do with Mac.

Some mac stuff is very overpriced, but I'd argue that for photo and video editors, the M1 Macbooks and Mac Mini are much better value than anything available on the Windows side.

The M1 Pro/M1 Max/M1 Extreme macbooks and mac studios are also pretty good value for the money, if you don't load up on the ram (unnecessary, the Macs are much more efficient about memory management) or the SSD space (too expensive, can just get external Thurnderbolt/USB-C SSDs).

Thanks dreifish. Helpful!