What strobes would you buy?

On 3/11/2022 at 2:29 PM, Jerry Diver said:

he Z-330 is basically the same strobe that inon was making 20+ years ago

Is factually incorrect! Beyond the fact that they utilize the same housing, the Z330's internals are completely new. They happen to have struck on a very good form factor, and have decided to stick with it, but have invested in updating/upgrading all the internals. 

I'm not coming down on either side of the Retra vs Inon debate (I haven't shot the new Retra yet, so can't really speak), but let's keep our facts straight

I agree with Adam. The Z330 does not share the legendary reliability-wise internals of the Z240. And because Inon didn’t change the externals they didn’t fix the most annoying feature of the strobes - the BB - when making a new model. So it seems I agree with Jerry too! 

I've seen a claim (from a person who disassembled both strobes), though I cannot verify it myself, that Z-330 uses the exact same flash tubes as the Z-240, but drives them twice as hard (bigger capacitors, etc), which results in increased output but decreased reliability.

8 hours ago, Alex_Mustard said:

I agree with Adam. The Z330 does not share the legendary reliability-wise internals of the Z240. And because Inon didn’t change the externals they didn’t fix the most annoying feature of the strobes - the BB - when making a new model. So it seems I agree with Jerry too! 

What's the BB Alex? 

This is an extensive review of the Inon Z330-1 strobe by Simon Lorenz, anticipates and answers many of the above issues and questions:

https://www.divephotoguide.com/underwater-photography-special-features/article/wide-angle-underwater-photography-inon-z330-strobe

Congratulations rlopes,! your question (probably) led to a Wetpixel LIVE video. 

https://wetpixel.com/articles/wetpixel-live-choosing-a-strobe1

@Chris, I finally solved Alex's 'the BB' puzzle, but as you asked Alex I'll keep my mouth locked :-)

All,

Thank you for the discussion and I am happy that it seems like the conversation is leading to value for more than just me (as I think all dialogue does). 

You all have given me more things to think about in the flexibility of my shooting.  And I have a lot of learning to do.  Starting UW photography in 2009 you would think I would know a bit more about this topic, and I find it humbling and refreshingly exciting to realize what I don't know.   Keep the conversation going. 

I am cold water bound in that I teach scuba and do some shooting in cold water (Pacific Northwest US).  But I have lived in and traveled to the tropical regions where I have some of my best images...so I have a disparate range of shooting conditions to consider (let alone wide angle to Macro).  I am going to look into the adaptability in all strobes from snoot attachments for macro (have never shot macro that way before) to the ability to upgrade firmware just as we do on our cameras and to many other factors.  

I am leaning towards Retra and still thinking through the ancillary components that I might want in the future.   That being said, I am going to explore the same considerations with the INON 330ii.  

Again thanks and I will post my purchase decision which will likely take place in April.

Lopes 

On 3/14/2022 at 1:14 AM, ChrisRoss said:

What's the BB Alex? 

Alex's answer does not seem to come. The BB must be the Battery Box, Inon's name for the battery compartment. It's double cap system is considered cumbersome by some (many?) owners. 

On 3/13/2022 at 5:14 PM, ChrisRoss said:

What's the BB Alex? 

Purely a guess, but I'm assuming he means the small magnet that you can use to disable (or enable?) the pre-flash cancel mode?

BB as in "BB gun" where the small magnet resembles a BB?

But, I took a quick look at the manual for the Z330 and I don't see mention of using the magnet so maybe they have gotten rid of that?

Here is a screenshot of the S-2000 manual page that mentions it:

- brett

BB stands for Bastard Button - the stupid-mind-of-its-own pre flash magnet system - because it has ruined so many photographers shots and dives by suddenly being the wrong position - I thought everyone called it that. Its continued existence (rather than a simple switch, for example) is Bloody Baffling.

20 minutes ago, Alex_Mustard said:

BB stands for Bastard Button - the stupid-mind-of-its-own pre flash magnet system - because it has ruined so many photographers shots and dives by suddenly being the wrong position - I thought everyone called it that. Its continued existence (rather than a simple switch, for example) is Bloody Baffling.

Okay, so I had the right function, just not the right nomenclature for "BB." Haha. 

I don't own a Z330, but I took a look at the manual and it looks like they might have put in a "simple switch, for example" to control the function instead of the BB:

Those bastards!

- brett

"Simple"... yeah.... 

I've been using the Inon 330 for several years now on perhaps 400-500 dives and never had an issue with this button popping up. The only time it ever moves is when I occasionally manipulate it when doing a deep soak of the strobe. Perhaps the Button was a Bastard on the 240, but the 330 seems to have taught it some manners.

To be fair, I think the majority of problems with the BB are people not understanding what they do and when to use (or not use) them...

6 hours ago, Alex_Mustard said:

BB stands for Bastard Button - the stupid-mind-of-its-own pre flash magnet system - because it has ruined so many photographers shots and dives by suddenly being the wrong position - I thought everyone called it that. Its continued existence (rather than a simple switch, for example) is Bloody Baffling.

Right, I can see why they use a magnet - one less penetration of the housing, though equally it could be handled by an extra position on the rotary switch.  I've been caught out by it once, but I'm pretty good at setting it in the right position when setting up the rig ever since. 

On 3/23/2022 at 4:53 PM, TmxDiver said:

Okay, so I had the right function, just not the right nomenclature for "BB." Haha. 

I don't own a Z330, but I took a look at the manual and it looks like they might have put in a "simple switch, for example" to control the function instead of the BB:

Those bastards!

- brett

 

The problem with BB is, that they pop out upon unintentionally touching them slightly from this "simple switch - push and lock" position, when one adjusts other controls, e.g. intensity, especially when wearing gloves, but also w/o gloves. It may depend on the shape of your hands - I have rather crude hands with bold but short fingers (called "sausage fingers" here in Austria) and it happens frequently to me, while my wife never complained about the BBs so far...

I have read here about people (with Z240 that seem to have similar problem), who use superglue to arrest the BBs, because the BBs drive them crazy. I realized immediately what Alex meant with the abbreviation BB, as this is indeed the Achilles heel of the Z330s and the problem recurs again and again, even after experience with the strobes..

We have three Z330 and they are very fine strobes, with the exception of the BBs, that are annoying - as Alex says part of the photos are ruined, because one of the strobes jumped out from manual and gives not enough intensity. Sometimes it is too late to rearrest the failing BB and make the photo again...

Wolfgang

P.S.: Since this is a tread about which strobe to buy, I want to add that I would not go for Sea&Sea, after a lot of bad experience with four YS-D2 (evidence is accumulating about the new YS-D3 that they are also not reliable). Probably I would go again for Z330 as basic strobes, embracing the impractical BBs, but Seacam or Retra may be an alternative...

53 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

The problem with BB is, that they pop out upon unintentionally touching them slightly from this "simple switch - push and lock" position, when one adjusts other controls, e.g. intensity, especially when wearing gloves, but also w/o gloves. It may depend on the shape of your hands - I have rather crude hands with bold but short fingers (called "sausage fingers" here in Austria) and it happens frequently to me, while my wife never complained about the BBs so far...

I have read here about people (with Z240 that seem to have similar problem), who use superglue to arrest the BBs, because the BBs drive them crazy. I realized immediately what Alex meant with the abbreviation BB, as this is indeed the Achilles heel of the Z330s and the problem recurs again and again, even after experience with the strobes..

We have three Z330 and they are very fine strobes, with the exception of the BBs, that are annoying - as Alex says part of the photos are ruined, because one of the strobes jumped out from manual and gives not enough intensity. Sometimes it is too late to rearrest the failing BB and make the photo again...

Wolfgang

 

P.S.: Since this is a tread about which strobe to buy, I want to add that I would not go for Sea&Sea, after a lot of bad experience with four YS-D2 (evidence is accumulating about the new YS-D3 that they are also not reliable). Probably I would go again for Z330 as basic strobes, embracing the impractical BBs, but Seacam or Retra may be an alternative...

If I'm not mistaken you are shooting manual and the BB is popping out.  If you always shoot manual it should be feasible to screw out the BB switch and install the screw like they have on the the cheaper D2000 etc.  Apparently it's M7 x 1 screw about 16 mm long, but you would need to find a magnet.

I am selling my DS-161s (and electronic sync) and just bought the Inon Z-330s and love them! I shoot with the Nikon Z6 ii and the optical trigger/TTL in the Nauticam housing works perfect! Good move to switch to optical.