What strobes would you buy?

I have to admit my rookieness (that's a word right?) on this or any forum for that matter.   I very much appreciated the guidance and support for troubleshooting my use of my Ikelite DS160s on my new housing in this thread. 

I am going to buy a set of new strobes and I would love to read the various opinions of the combine expertise that you all possess.  

• I own and will likely retain my DS160's from Ikelite (triggered by electrical sync cables)  
• I am shooting a Nikon Z7ii in the Nauticam NA-Z7ii housing.
• The strobes must be able to be fired optically - but having an option to fire electrically is not out of the question.
• Cost might be an option...but if expensive, why are they better than a less expensive model.  

If this is completely redundant and there are already current threads out there I would appreciate any links to those threads (I did search and peruse a bit). 

Thanks in advance,

Lopes

To me it comes down to either the INON Z-330 which is a reliable strobe with a good reputation or the Retras.  The INON is a fine strobe and a little cheaper, the Retras which alos enjoy a good reputation have circular flash tubes and produce a more even wider beam - the beam is brighter to the edges which is the part of the beam you are trying to use.  The quality of the light is the selling point of the retras,  They also do high speed sync.

Both can be fired optically, the INON will take electrical sync cords and the Retra requires their electrical to optic converter to use electrical sync cords. 

Both do optical TTL and electrical connection is manual only. 

I agree with Chris. Inon Z330 (or even the now discontinued Z240) or the Retras. I’ve owned both and can recommend either. 
 

The Retras are, I’d argue, more robust, better built, produce a better quality light, are better supported, can have firmware updates - and have an extremely useful set of light modifiers (snoot, macro rings, reflectors) available. But they are more expensive. if you might want to go the snoot route, go Retra. The circular flash tube is perfect for that. The Retra also can do High Speed Sync which the Inons can’t. 
 

Both run off rechargeable AA batteries. 
 

If you have the budget, get the Retras. If not, the Inon Z330. If even they are a struggle, second hand Z240s. 
 

ONe point I’ve made many times, Chris too I think: strobes are one of the few items that can grow with your system - unlike, say, a camera body or housing. So buy them once and buy well. 

Just this week I needed two new strobes: I bought two Inon 330-2 ($627 ea.) from Fun In Underwater Photo in Taiwan (Mr. Chia-ming handled the sale).  The fiber optic cables are Toslink cable with Uxcell 7mm boot protector plugs, from of Amazon.

I think it would be good to know what type of shooting you do most. As this is very much your decision, others' strobe choices are not really relevant

There is no one strobe that does it all well, so you will need to compromise. For example, with the Z7, and if you are shooting blue water wide angle, you need big powerful strobes to allow you to maintain a reasonable aperture, and hence decent corners. Conversely, if you are shooting mostly macro, a small less powerful (and cheaper) strobe will probably be sufficient.

As a Retra Pro user, I'm pretty much in 100% agreement with Tim and Chris. One thing I would note though, is that if you're heavily into macro, consider Backscatter MF-1. The thin form factor makes positioning easier for tight macro shots, and they're great for snooting as well.

4 hours ago, adamhanlon said:

I think it would be good to know what type of shooting you do most. As this is very much your decision, others' strobe choices are not really relevant

A fair point by Adam. I guess I was assuming you'd be doing a bit of macro, a bit of wide-angle, a bit of everything..... 

"Assumption: the Mother of all F**k-ups".

Perfect...exactly what I was looking for. 

Elias - I have not ignored your guidance on the Inon 330ii.

Chris, Tim, et al, - thanks for the extended thinking on the Retra's.

• I do a bit of it all re: macro/wide shooting...I love my macro's for clarity and repeatability of the shot. 
• Wide angle always for the cool big stuff...whale sharks, whales, sharks, etc...

Retra question -

I was told that Retra support for strobes as they age has been limited.  Further explanation being that they are a small company and bandwidth of support reflects that.   I have had my DS160's for a while now and Ikelite still supports them.   Comments on the longevity of support for a Retra stobe 5 years down the road? 10? 

Similar support experience question for Inon and Sea&Sea.  How has support been from these companies? 

Thanks again in advance,

Lopes

Hey Lopes

I suspect that Oskar of Retra will chip-in on your comment about Retra support and ageing. I was slightly surprised by the comment which doesn't really match what I have seen on WP. 

If you have a look on the Retra strobe thread you'll see that they are very pro-active at offering help and assistance. They have not been operating for very long so it's hard to say what the medium/long-term might be. But, so far I - and others - have found them unfailing helpful. Oskar and the Retra team answer emails quickly; they chip-in on WP often - and they support their strobes rather ingeniously by being able to Bluetooth them for firmware updates and for diagnostics. The manual and support materials are very good. (Inons by contrast are horrible!) And they are almost bomb-proof in build and design. The one year initial guarantee is extended to 2 years by keeping the firmware upto date.

A nice touch too, I thought, was a while back Retra extended all/most warranties to 2 years because of COVID and buyers not being able to dive. I can't recall the full detail now but it covered my strobes bought in Feb 2020. 

I can't speak for Sea & Sea. Sorry, no personal experience but you'll find lots of thoughts on various threads if you search for Sea&Sea strobes. Not all positive....

On the Inon, I have no idea what their direct support might be like from Japan and I've never had to contact a local dealer for support. I never had a problem with an Inon strobe over something like 15-20 years (Z220, Z240 models) so never needed serious support. Speaks volumes. There is a very broad user base and, again, if you do a WP search on Z240 or Z330 you'll see there is lots of advice and info from WP members - and parts, generally are not too hard to find.

Just one other thought: I can light reef sharks when they come within, say, 6' - which they do here. (got to say, nicely with the Retras) But I  really have doubts about being able to light a whale shark or whales with any strobe. That's ambient light stuff. Strobes just don't have the power to light really big things. Maybe worth bearing that in mind (and forgive me if I'm offering egg-sucking lessons). 

I have similar experience with Inon's. Over many years of abuse they have never needed repair, so I don't know about support. The only disadvantage is you need a PhD in Inon to understand the knobs and buttons. If buying fresh I could be tempted by Retras - the controls look a bit more obvious and they are shiny.

2 hours ago, TimG said:

Just one other thought: I can light reef sharks when they come within, say, 6' - which they do here. (got to say, nicely with the Retras) But I  really have doubts about being able to light a whale shark or whales with any strobe. That's ambient light stuff. Strobes just don't have the power to light really big things. Maybe worth bearing that in mind (and forgive me if I'm offering egg-sucking lessons). 

I've lit up at least the face of a whale shark with my Inon 330's.

3 minutes ago, davehicks said:

I've lit up at least the face of a whale shark with my Inon 330's.

 

Good one, Dave!

6 hours ago, rlopes said:

Similar support experience question for Inon and Sea&Sea.  How has support been from these companies? 

Thanks again in advance,

Lopes

 

From what I can tell contacting INON and S&S direct doesn't work you need to work through the dealers.  As others have said INON has not needed much support.  We regularly see posts about issues with S&S strobes though, the latest S&S strobes are fairly new so not sure if the reliability has improved though we have had some people asking about triggering problems on posts on Wetpixel.

Its funny how for a long time we all used Inon Z240's or similar and many photographers got spectacular results. They do so even now. There are a plethora of new strobes, but honestly I still do believe that the Z240's do the job quite well. 

Yes there are those real behemoths like the one underwater or seacam's  which can't be beaten for wide angle shooting. 

But otherwise if budget may be a concern, used Z240's or similar may be a real option. And like Adam pointed out, if macro may be your primary goal, then there are some great budget strobes just for that. 

Diggy

16 hours ago, rlopes said:

I was told that Retra support for strobes as they age has been limited.  Further explanation being that they are a small company and bandwidth of support reflects that.   I have had my DS160's for a while now and Ikelite still supports them.   Comments on the longevity of support for a Retra stobe 5 years down the road? 10? 

There is no reason we would not be able to support one of our products in the future. We are in business for more than 10 years now and our oldest flashguns are 5 years old. They get repaired when something goes wrong and we offer support in case of any questions, which are also coming from second hand buyers.

On 3/9/2022 at 12:26 AM, ChrisRoss said:

To me it comes down to either the INON Z-330 which is a reliable strobe with a good reputation or the Retras.  The INON is a fine strobe and a little cheaper, the Retras which alos enjoy a good reputation have circular flash tubes and produce a more even wider beam - the beam is brighter to the edges which is the part of the beam you are trying to use.  The quality of the light is the selling point of the retras,  They also do high speed sync.

Both can be fired optically, the INON will take electrical sync cords and the Retra requires their electrical to optic converter to use electrical sync cords. 

Both do optical TTL and electrical connection is manual only. 

At least in my country 'a little cheaper' is rather optimistic for a Retra buyer. From INON Z330-2 to Retra the price nearly doubles.  The quality of light may be a reason to buy the Retras but I din't find tests that compare the quality of INON's type2 yet. Does anyone?

I placed my order with Fun-In Underwater on March 7, and I received the two Inon Z330 strobes via DHL 3 days later, morning of March 10.  Great strobes, bargain price, no sales tax, 3 day delivery, can't beat it. 

13 minutes ago, Kraken de Mabini said:

I placed my order with Fun-In Underwater on March 7, and I received the two Inon Z330 strobes via DHL 3 days later, morning of March 10.  Great strobes, bargain price, no sales tax, 3 day delivery, can't beat it. 

And no US import taxes or duties? 

None, and no Mickey Mouse forms or similar. Ordered by email, picked up at my door step.  

Not sure if the Z-330 and retra are comparable besides them both being underwater strobes. The versatility and technology on the retra is far superior to the Z-330 and hence the considerable difference in price. The Z-330 is basically the same strobe that inon was making 20+ years ago. Have you recently driven a car from 20 years ago? It sure gets you from A to B but other than that the new stuff is better in almost every aspect. The Z-330 performs better with TTL since they basically made two pop-up flashes and stuck them together in a T shape. If TTL is your main shooting mode go for inon. Otherwise go for retra if your budget allows it.