Photography Gear and Technique / Archived topic
Started by Kraken de Mabini ·
Read-only discussion
On 5/17/2022 at 5:38 AM, turandot said:One thing is clear: prices are becoming unaffordable for an average hobbyist. A luxury within the reach of a few.
Well, I don't know how I feel about this statement. A top of the line DSLR in an aluminum housing is not really "average hobbyist" gear.
That is a good point Alex. I have a Nikon D810. Only one model older than my dream camera, a D850. I was shocked to realize that my camera is almost 8 years old!
45 minutes ago, rwb500 said:That is a good point Alex.
Yeah, I thought that too. After crazy 2-3 year iterations, I’ve now got a 5-year old D500 based system and see no reason to change it. Phew!
On 5/15/2022 at 8:26 PM, dreifish said:I added the Marelux housings from Blue Water Photo to the mix, added the Canon R5 C and Nikon Z9 housings for comparison, and re-ordered the manufacturers based on the average price of the first 4 housings.
Ikelite is in a price category of its own.
Isotta remains the best bang for the buck among the aluminium brands, with Aquatica and Marilux similarly priced and just on its heels. Seas & Sea probably belongs in the same tier, but the odd Nikon Z7 II housing price throws it off. Let call this the second price bracket, which is about a 75% price premium over Ikelite housings.
Nauticam, Seacam and Subal are all now in a completely different price bracket very similar to each other. Compared to the second price bracket, we're talking about another 60% price premium, almost as big as the jump from the polycarbonate Ikelite housings to the lower tier aluminium housings.
So.. what justifies a 60% price premium for Nauticam, Seacam & Subal? Genuinely curious what the advantages are, in your view. Better build quality? Better anodization or finish? Something else?
Just to clarify pricing: All AQUATICA housings ship with the moisture sensor, vacuum valve, pump and your choice of dual Nikonos connectors, single Ikelite connector or dual Optical ports; for our Optical option, the flash trigger is included in the housing price.
As an example our Canon AR5 housing is priced at $3,199 USD
From Backscatter or Bluewater websites the Isotta housing would be $ 3,574 USD when you add a vacuum system and their manual optical flash trigger, so an increase of $644USD from their base price.
For Nauticam, when adding their vacuum valve and manual flash would now be $5,821 USD so an increase of $ 662 USD
As I much as I’d love my gear to cost less, inflation is a real thing, our beloved housing manufacturers aren't immune to it. Overtime, each and every one of them will raise their prices.
Looking ahead: in 20 years time all major currencies will have lost half of their value at least - my guess (through inflation, printing of money by governments, etc) - so I expect camera housings to cost much more, the same way a loaf of bread will cost much more by then.
We can’t expect an aluminium housing for cameras of the future (mirrorless will be a thing of the past, the to-be cameras will pick the subjects for us, and auto-cull our photos while we’re diving… ;)) to still cost around 3500 USD then, unless housing manufacturers have found ways to drastically cut their costs… or underwater imagery has become a mass market, I don’t see either happening.
Take pro camera bodies (Nikon D6 type): roughly speaking they have seen a +50% price increase since the late 2000s: a Nikon D3 costed about 4000 EUR when it came out (can’t remember USD prices), now we’re talking 6000 EUR for that sort of cameras.
Back to Nauticam, we wouldn’t have this thread if they had just increased their prices 5% each year. The other thing which I believe creates some discomfort is to find out about the change the next time you’re randomly (or more intentionally) browsing your favorite UW gear retailer store. It would have made the pill a little easier to swallow if there had been some sort of announcement.
Camera manufacturers have been alerting consumers on a regular basis for upcoming prices increases, a recent example here:
https://www.diyphotography.net/nikon-announces-price-increase-from-next-month-due-to-supply-issues/
It’s nice because you can decide to expedite your purchase to avoid the increase, and if you can’t/won’t, at least you know what you’re up to.
Even nicer if the brand provides some justifications for the change, it saves your customers wondering, and shows a little extra care 
That being said, it’s great to see the other aluminium housing brands able to stay around 3000-3500 USD range for now, and the newcome Marelux to also shoot in that space.
On 5/16/2022 at 2:26 AM, dreifish said:I added the Marelux housings from Blue Water Photo to the mix, added the Canon R5 C and Nikon Z9 housings for comparison, and re-ordered the manufacturers based on the average price of the first 4 housings.
Ikelite is in a price category of its own.
Isotta remains the best bang for the buck among the aluminium brands, with Aquatica and Marilux similarly priced and just on its heels. Seas & Sea probably belongs in the same tier, but the odd Nikon Z7 II housing price throws it off. Let call this the second price bracket, which is about a 75% price premium over Ikelite housings.
Nauticam, Seacam and Subal are all now in a completely different price bracket very similar to each other. Compared to the second price bracket, we're talking about another 60% price premium, almost as big as the jump from the polycarbonate Ikelite housings to the lower tier aluminium housings.
So.. what justifies a 60% price premium for Nauticam, Seacam & Subal? Genuinely curious what the advantages are, in your view. Better build quality? Better anodization or finish? Something else?
1) Could we maybe add M4/3 housing there, for example GH6 and EM1III
2) If i understand correctly, based on me looking recently for GH6 housings, as well as the previous poster - some brands include things like vacuum valve and flash trigger in the price, others do not. This can mean another 600-700 Euro difference.
3) Does anybody remember the brand of housings that a while ago advertised one housing that fits 20+ cameras? I.e. instead of using mechanical gears, it uses electronic buttons/PCB and USB/Wifi connection?. As for the life of me I cannot remember the name.
But 3) is what i wonder. I mean i get it, mechanical are precisely manufactured etc. But your housing is then only good for a single camera model. And 10 years later becomes unusable as in camera is most likely too outdated. Now as much as i understand as to why manufactures love selling us a new housing each time, i would be all for such electronic system. Simple electronic board using USB connector in your camera. Instead of needing a new housing each time an upgrade happens, would be awesome to keep it instead and say just upgrade the firmware/PCB At much lower cost. Kinda like some dive computers are sold - you buy basic version then can unlock features via upgrades. Plus without most of the mechanical gears perhaps housing would be smaller to start with (cheaper to manufacture?)
19 minutes ago, makar0n said:3) Does anybody remember the brand of housings that a while ago advertised one housing that fits 20+ cameras? I.e. instead of using mechanical gears, it uses electronic buttons/PCB and USB/Wifi connection?. As for the life of me I cannot remember the name.
But 3) is what i wonder. I mean i get it, mechanical are precisely manufactured etc. But your housing is then only good for a single camera model. And 10 years later becomes unusable as in camera is most likely too outdated. Now as much as i understand as to why manufactures love selling us a new housing each time, i would be all for such electronic system. Simple electronic board using USB connector in your camera. Instead of needing a new housing each time an upgrade happens, would be awesome to keep it instead and say just upgrade the firmware/PCB At much lower cost. Kinda like some dive computers are sold - you buy basic version then can unlock features via upgrades. Plus without most of the mechanical gears perhaps housing would be smaller to start with (cheaper to manufacture?)
5 minutes ago, waterpixel said:
Thank you!
On 5/16/2022 at 2:26 AM, dreifish said:I added the Marelux housings from Blue Water Photo to the mix, added the Canon R5 C and Nikon Z9 housings for comparison, and re-ordered the manufacturers based on the average price of the first 4 housings.
Ikelite is in a price category of its own.
Isotta remains the best bang for the buck among the aluminium brands, with Aquatica and Marilux similarly priced and just on its heels. Seas & Sea probably belongs in the same tier, but the odd Nikon Z7 II housing price throws it off. Let call this the second price bracket, which is about a 75% price premium over Ikelite housings.
Nauticam, Seacam and Subal are all now in a completely different price bracket very similar to each other. Compared to the second price bracket, we're talking about another 60% price premium, almost as big as the jump from the polycarbonate Ikelite housings to the lower tier aluminium housings.
So.. what justifies a 60% price premium for Nauticam, Seacam & Subal? Genuinely curious what the advantages are, in your view. Better build quality? Better anodization or finish? Something else?
So i do not seem lazy and just asking 
Text version attached.
I am aware that the topic is recent price hikes and that much time has been spent on charts to compare the cost of basic housings but when you are making an investment it is in a system and not the housing. If you buy the housing simply because it has the lowest price and then find out it does not support the lenses you want to use how is that a bargain.
I shoot Sony cameras and I use the Sony FE 28-60mm for both the WWL-1 and WACP-1 for a lot of my wide angle. Only two of the housing brands listed above allow me to shoot this lens with these two water contact optics. Several other lenses I use are also not supported by several of these brands.
My point is that while I agree that prices are up if you are not considering the entire system you are likely to regret your choice.
On 5/18/2022 at 9:00 PM, Carolina A. said:
As an example our Canon AR5 housing is priced at $3,199 USD
From Backscatter or Bluewater websites the Isotta housing would be $ 3,574 USD when you add a vacuum system and their manual optical flash trigger, so an increase of $644USD from their base price.
For Nauticam, when adding their vacuum valve and manual flash would now be $5,821 USD so an increase of $ 662 USD
Thanks for pointing this out, Carolina! I consider both vaccum systems and flash triggers a must in a modern housing, so this is indeed a meaningful price difference. As a Canadian, I'm glad to see that Aquatica can bring such solid value to the table with their housings. Now you just need to get a dealer in South Florida so I can get a hand-on feel of some of your housings and be in a better position to judge material quality, workmanship, engineering and ease of use
4 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:I am aware that the topic is recent price hikes and that much time has been spent on charts to compare the cost of basic housings but when you are making an investment it is in a system and not the housing. If you buy the housing simply because it has the lowest price and then find out it does not support the lenses you want to use how is that a bargain.
I shoot Sony cameras and I use the Sony FE 28-60mm for both the WWL-1 and WACP-1 for a lot of my wide angle. Only two of the housing brands listed above allow me to shoot this lens with these two water contact optics. Several other lenses I use are also not supported by several of these brands.
My point is that while I agree that prices are up if you are not considering the entire system you are likely to regret your choice.
You raise valid points, Phil. I am very much tempted towards a Sony system because of the availability of the WWL-1 + 28-60 lens combo. As far as I know, only Nauticam housings allow the use of this combo, which is waaay cheaper than stepping up to a WACP-1/2 for wide angle. However, other housing manufacturers (and SAGA) provide adaptors that allow the use of the WACP-1/2 with non-nauticam housings, so if you're going for those wide angle solutions, than more options open up, no?
That said, I think the Nauticam system also has downsides. Like, for instance, the n100 narrow ports on the Sony housings which means you can only front-mount an adapted Canon 8-15 lens. I find this very annoying in practice, to not be able to insert the camera with the lens on from the back. It also means you need to fork out an extra $657!! for an N100 to N120 adaptor, which is makes the Nauticam option that much more expensive.
Finally, when you start considering systems as a whole rather than housings, then you need to look at the price differences between things like ports, domes, extension rings and zoom/focus gears. Here again Nauticam is waay overpriced, and you end up spending thousands more for a Nauticam system as a result. Just have a look:
Regarding the Sony FE 28-60mm with the Nauticam WWL-1 Marelux has a macro port 32 with 67mm threads and zoom gear that supports this lens. Port lists for $376.00 and the gear is $166.00. They also offer a Nauticam to Marelux 20 port adapter ($200.00) this allows you to directly mount the WACP-1/2 to the housing with the same lens. Also missing on your port chart, Marelux has a 140mm port for $1090.00. Since all of the Marelux housings are for full frame mirrorless housings so far I don't suspect a 4" dome will be offered anytime soon.
I have attached a photo of the Marelux housing for Sony a7 IV with the Nauticam port adapter, Nauticam 20mm extension and 140mm port with the Canon 8-15mm fisheye zoom.
On 5/19/2022 at 11:17 AM, makar0n said:Does anybody remember the brand of housings that a while ago advertised one housing that fits 20+ cameras? I.e. instead of using mechanical gears, it uses electronic buttons/PCB and USB/Wifi connection?. As for the life of me I cannot remember the name.
Easydive
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