Wetpixel Live: Strobe Triggering Advice

As both are recently returned from trips, @Alex_Mustard and @adamhanlon discuss some of the equipment issues that were experienced. In both cases, they have been running workshops, so get to see a wide variety of equipment-related problems. The general trend toward fiber optic strobe triggering places great reliance on the circuit boards that generate the flash signal, and photographers need to consider how to build some resilience in the field.

Regarding a backup trigger - https://seafrogs.com.hk/collections/underwater-strobe/products/sea-frogs-flash-trigger-for-fiber-optic-cables

Requires certain placement of the fiber optic bulkhead though.

3 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

Requires certain placement of the fiber optic bulkhead though.

And many housing do not have sufficient space for it...

I wonder if the trigger board could be encased in a resin to waterproof the electronics, or supplied with a thin silicone raincoat to protect the board and batteries from drips?

34 minutes ago, ianmarsh said:

I wonder if the trigger board could be encased in a resin to waterproof the electronics, or supplied with a thin silicone raincoat to protect the board and batteries from drips?

That's a good point, Ian. The triggers are becoming horribly expensive and if a housing flood was to occur I'd almost be as concerned about losing the trigger as the camera!

Pavel: if you read this, how about trying to figure out a way to waterproof the UWT boards? That would be such a bonus.

Or if you use Olympus the little FL-LM3 supplied with the camera is in the price range suggested, a second one costs around $AUD100.  I actually have 3 of them - one that came with each of my camera bodies.  Triggering it at 1/64 power is fine for any external strobe and uses minimal battery power.

This might actually be a simpler universal solution - a small low profile flash unit that flashes only at a rather low power and does manual only is almost a universal fit as most cameras trigger manually off the large central contact and the side of the hotshoe.  It would put out more power than any LED trigger and as the tube is physically larger alignment is less of an issue.  Powering it is an issue of course perhaps if was powered by a AAA battery or two?  The olympus ones of course use the camera battery.  May not fit all housings but should fit many.

The universal mini-flash is a good solution - but can have problems with light leakage through to the port on most housings - as the area usually occupied with a trigger is not light sealed from the port. 

My favoured suggestion is from the board designers to sell us a second, simple manual board, alongside our main board when we buy it. Exactly the same size and shape - but without all the electronic wizardry. Since they are already getting the main sale, maybe this could be sold with minimal profit, so is a significantly sub $100 option, when bought with a main board. 

The only downside I can think to this plan, is that it requires the designer to, at least in part, admit that gear might break! Which is always hard to achieve - like one well known housing brand that refused to fit leak detectors and vacuums for years because “our housings don’t flood”!

Alex

Very interesting and timely (for me) discussion.
I just picked up a new housing that has electronic sync bulkheads installed and need to decide if I should go down the electronic cable route, or stick to the fiber-optic cables I've used for years.

@Alex_Mustard or @adamhanlon - Any thoughts on returning to electronic cables? If I recall, they were as problematic with o-rings and corrosion as a circuit board in a housing might be. The Retra electro-optical convertors also require batteries, so there is no avoiding that potential source of problems.

Hey DocTock

I'm sure Adam and Alex will respond. I wanted to offer a couple of thoughts too.  

Like you, I've been using FO for some years now with D500 and D800-based systems. I used the usual electrical sync cords before that with CP5000s, D100s, D200s and D300s..

There are swings and roundabouts to both and, from my experience, it depends what you want to achieve and just how well the component parts fit together to achieve that goal.

Electrical: generally reliable connections which should enable both Manual and TTL depending on the strobe. However can't be disconnected underwater to enable off-housing lighting (if that matters to you). Slightly more fiddly to put together. More prone to corrosion and leak issues. Expensive cables.

FO: cheap (especially if you make your own) and flexible in most senses. Easy to have off-housing lighting setups at a moment's notice underwater. Quick and easy to put together as part of a system. Usually very reliable for Manual. TTL can be a bit more difficult to achieve. An initiator is needed (Manual/TTL/HSS electronics board) which can be expensive especially if TTL is required. Cables need a degree of accuracy in cutting and siting if TTL is required.

My conclusion, for what it's worth: FO is a no-brainer. I was always concerned about the electrical connections: broken or rusted pins. I found it unhelpful that it was tricky to rinse the system as the sync cords usually had to remain in place well into the cleaning process. I got pretty reliable macro TTL with sync cords; but found with FO switching to Manual was easy and now I almost never use TTL - but do use HSS. If the FO cords fail (rare) I make a new one:  $15-$20? If I need a longer one, I make one. If I want to backlight a subject I disconnect the strobe from the housing, run out a FO cable and away I go. Disconnect the strobes and cables before it all goes into the rinse tank: less to break. 

On the other hand I now have an expensive initiator board. If I get a flood, not only might I lose the camera and lens - but the initiator board as well. 

So, as the saying goes, you pays your money and you takes your choice. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. But having used both and having put well over 500 dives into an FO-based system, I would not go back to electrical sync cables. 

3 hours ago, DocTock said:

Very interesting and timely (for me) discussion.
I just picked up a new housing that has electronic sync bulkheads installed and need to decide if I should go down the electronic cable route, or stick to the fiber-optic cables I've used for years.

@Alex_Mustard or @adamhanlon - Any thoughts on returning to electronic cables? If I recall, they were as problematic with o-rings and corrosion as a circuit board in a housing might be. The Retra electro-optical convertors also require batteries, so there is no avoiding that potential source of problems.

To add to Tim's comments it appears you have or are going to use Retra strobes.  To me it seems having sync cables and electro optical converters means you are exposed to the problems that both systems have.  In addition as I understand it the Retra eletro optical converter is manual only.  So you have the issues with sync cable maintenance, you can take the strobe off camera and you can't do TTL with the converter, plus you another item that could fail in the converter/battery.

A bit more based on Retras:

I've used FO cables now with Retras for a little over 2 years. I've yet to find a problem with that combination.

FO cables fire on Manual no problem at all. I don't use, or rarely use, TTL but testing that combination, I did have a problem getting TTL with my homemade cables.  With guidance from Oskar of Retra, he explained how to sort this out - and I posted about this. Essentially cables must be cut with a sharp knife not scissors (ok, my bad). 

As I set out, the combination does require a pricey electronics board and I have the excellent UWT one. With the Retras this gives Manual, TTL and HSS. I really like HSS in bright conditions when shooting up towards the sun. You can use high shutter speeds to manage the ambient light but still initiate the strobes to fill light the subject.

With the Retra/FO (and D500) combination I would not go back to electronic cables and struggle to think why I might suggest them to someone else.

On the issue of "waterproofing" the trigger board, I was wondering about trying to use a condom to cover the board.

The wires could tuck into/out of the opening to the condom - with a wire twist loop to close it. It wouldn't be perfect and two screw holes would have to go through the condom at the back to fix the board to the housing - but better than nothing?

Just a thought....

Brings a whole new meaning to the old joke about condoms and ice cream trucks: Buy Me and Stop One. Well maybe you have to be British to appreciate that one. 

Appreciate Tim and Chris' input that confirms my thoughts to stick with FO.

 

It would be simple enough for the LED trigger boys to simply parylene coat the electronics board, we often use it for medical stuff that might get wet.

Might cost $5 or so

Bill

5 hours ago, bvanant said:

It would be simple enough for the LED trigger boys to simply parylene coat the electronics board, we often use it for medical stuff that might get wet.

Might cost $5 or so

Bill

Hope you saw this, Pavel!

On 7/12/2022 at 3:02 PM, Barmaglot said:

Regarding a backup trigger - https://seafrogs.com.hk/collections/underwater-strobe/products/sea-frogs-flash-trigger-for-fiber-optic-cables

Requires certain placement of the fiber optic bulkhead though.

I try it in a Nauticam A7R2 housing.
There is enough space for it, but it will require some work, as the flash light is directed to the front and the fiber optic connections are on the top of the housing.
Maybe some mirror inside the housing will solve the issue.
Anyway the external flash triggering seems to work when manually putting the fiber in front of the seaforg flash output.

The iTurtle units remain reasonably priced ($362).  Rechargeable and well over 1000 actuations on a charge.   

Reasonable pricing is somewhat variable in interpretation. I imagine that a straightforward, non TTL strobe trigger could be significantly cheaper than a comparable TTL enabled version

On 7/12/2022 at 9:02 PM, Barmaglot said:

Regarding a backup trigger - https://seafrogs.com.hk/collections/underwater-strobe/products/sea-frogs-flash-trigger-for-fiber-optic-cables

Requires certain placement of the fiber optic bulkhead though.

Sorry to revive this old thread, but im curious to know if anyone has an experience with this trigger. I bought a seafrogs housing for my EM5 III and it seems that the maximum sync speed with this trigger to my strobe is 1/100. Anyone else with the same experience? Might consider selling this housing and trigger if it is indeed the case.

That's an odd one - never heard about it. How does it manifest? Are you limited to 1/100s shutter speed in camera menus when the trigger is attached? Or are you getting partially dark frames at shutter speeds above 1/100s?