Sea and Sea YS D3 Problem - LED blinks red with full batteries and won't fire

Have you tried a number of different fiber optic cables? S&S strobes are notorious for refusing to trigger on anything less than a perfect fiber optic connection with a strong signal. Try replacing your FO with a new one and try again. Maybe try and see if you can trigger it with a bright flashlight. My Inon 330's with trigger on my phone flashlight for example.

4 hours ago, JustinO said:

So an interim update.... still nothing heard from Sea and Sea on what the issue is or how to address it. 

I''ve just come back from a two week work trip, and thought I'd test the strobe when I got home.  In went my set of Pros (as they were, no top up charge), and the unit charged until the "ready" lit came on continuously... and sure enough, the strobe fired normally. After three test fires at different power levels (no more than 1/2 power), I turned it off.

Turned it back on within a minute, and the red blinking "inadequate battery" reappeared, and it won't fire. I don't think there could be any overheating risk from that to put it in a protection mode. 

So more intrigue.... 

My hypotheses are: 

1. Either the batteries aren't delivering the grunt quick enough to recharge the circuit (triggering the "insufficient power" signal).

2. There's a fault in the one of the circuits that is somehow linked to residual power when the unit is turned off.   

I freely admit my ignorance on all things electronic, but I bet if I try again in two weeks once the capacitors have discharged a bit and the same batteries, the same will be repeated. 

This is very strange as the strobe should recharge after firing and then when you turn it back on the condenser is still charged so the light should come up immediately

For me this is an issue with the electronics not with the batteries as the second time around there would not be a recharge of the condenser

It doesn't seem like an lockout problem requiring a magnet to reset as it came good by itself, seems more like a problem  It doesn't seem like a battery issue.  You should be able to rule that out by installing some alkaline cells - they are 1.6V fresh out of the package and while they may not have the current capability of the eneloops they should still charge the strobe just a little slower.  You could also try the magnet thing, I'm sure it won't do any harm - but if it has reset itself and subsequently failed shortly afterwards it seems unlikely to be a permanent solution.

How old are the strobes are they still in warranty?  It sounds like they are not.  It seems like the approach would be either put them in for repair or consider them dead and get something else?  The repair option unfortunately is probably lengthy and expensive. 

19 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

This is very strange as the strobe should recharge after firing and then when you turn it back on the condenser is still charged so the light should come up immediately

For me this is an issue with the electronics not with the batteries as the second time around there would not be a recharge of the condenser

Thanks Massimo, 

I agree...not looking like a battery issue.   Making progress though...

21 hours ago, davehicks said:

Have you tried a number of different fiber optic cables? S&S strobes are notorious for refusing to trigger on anything less than a perfect fiber optic connection with a strong signal. Try replacing your FO with a new one and try again. Maybe try and see if you can trigger it with a bright flashlight. My Inon 330's with trigger on my phone flashlight for example.

Thanks Dave, 

yes, have been through a pretty exhaustive diagnostic,, and it's not a transmission issue.  The issue is that the "ready" light status suggests exhausted batteries when I turn it on- even if the batteries are full. And just to complicate matters, they operate the other strobe (identical model).  

17 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

It doesn't seem like an lockout problem requiring a magnet to reset as it came good by itself, seems more like a problem  It doesn't seem like a battery issue.  You should be able to rule that out by installing some alkaline cells - they are 1.6V fresh out of the package and while they may not have the current capability of the eneloops they should still charge the strobe just a little slower.  You could also try the magnet thing, I'm sure it won't do any harm - but if it has reset itself and subsequently failed shortly afterwards it seems unlikely to be a permanent solution.

How old are the strobes are they still in warranty?  It sounds like they are not.  It seems like the approach would be either put them in for repair or consider them dead and get something else?  The repair option unfortunately is probably lengthy and expensive. 

Cheers Chris, 

will give the new batteries a go... 

So a short update. S&S have asked for some photos (presumably to check it is not a flood).  I also have got some advice from Aquaphot on what to do with the YS D2 if the model enters battery protection mode.  Pasted below in case helpful: 

........................................

On the previous version YS-D2 the following caused the issue
If you 'repeatedly' (a little subjective) turn on the strobe under the following conditions, the strobe
will stop firing as the circuit protection is activated:

When the ready lamp does not activate within 30 seconds after the
power switch is turned on, due to drained / exhausted batteries being
used.

When batteries of different makes or different charge states are used.

To correct the error

Please try the following first, but only with batteries in prime condition!
.....

Turn the light level control dial to 1

As you depress the target light switch ...turn the light level control to 32

Release the target light switch, the ready light should start flashing
green.
The circuit protection mode has been deactivated
.......

Note this procedure can only be carried out twice!

............................................
Ends. 

  Thinking back to the  strobe problems posted here in Wetpixel, the majority of problem strobes are Sea&Sea, we read of just a few in other makes.  In this case, maybe the best approach is to send the strobe back to Sea&Sea, or to the dealer, for repair, replacement or refund. (Even a skilled amateur should Not open nor attempt to repair any make of underwater strobe, they are packed with electronics and are not user repairable.)

Also, it seems the time has come for UW photographers to switch to other strobe makes and inform Sea&Sea of this. Personally, since I switched I have had no more strobe problems.  

2 hours ago, Kraken de Mabini said:

  Thinking back to the  strobe problems posted here in Wetpixel, the majority of problem strobes are Sea&Sea, we read of just a few in other makes.  In this case, maybe the best approach is to send the strobe back to Sea&Sea, or to the dealer, for repair, replacement or refund. (Even a skilled amateur should Not open nor attempt to repair any make of underwater strobe, they are packed with electronics and are not user repairable.)

Also, it seems the time has come for UW photographers to switch to other strobe makes and inform Sea&Sea of this. Personally, since I switched I have had no more strobe problems.  

I agree with you about S&S. But to be fair i just had to send in one of my 5 year old / 600 dive Inon 330 strobes. The power switch started acting flaky last year not turning off. During my recent trip to Fiji it stopped working all together. Reef Photo will send it to Inon for a $450 complete makeover. All new internal parts including the bulbs i am told.

I bought another 330 to use while that one is being repaired, and will now have a spare.

  Thinking back to the  strobe problems posted here in Wetpixel, the majority of problem strobes are Sea&Sea, we read of just a few in other makes.  In this case, maybe the best approach is to send the strobe back to Sea&Sea, or to the dealer, for repair, replacement or refund. (Even a skilled amateur should Not open nor attempt to repair any make of underwater strobe, they are packed with electronics and are not user repairable.)
Also, it seems the time has come for UW photographers to switch to other strobe makes and inform Sea&Sea of this. Personally, since I switched I have had no more strobe problems.  

17 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Actually this is a bit subjective
I have had two sea and sea strobes none of them had any issues
I have had 4 inon strobes and one was defective
I damaged the sea and sea (hit a door on land and cracked a part) was not impressed with after sales and decided to switch but the actual product was solid
The YS-D2 has a design issue the bulb is too strong for the plastic casing and this results in the reflector getting hot
In the updated version sea and sea has put in place this safety mechanism to protect the bulb. In some cases the users try to circumvent this issue and end up damaging the strobe
Otherwise the strobe is well built has good coverage and power and the ergonomics work great
I almost never shoot at full power is the benefit of an MFT camera usually f/16 on the strobe is plenty but in some cases I shoot full power never on rapid burst and so far no problem


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A signifcant number of the S&S Chinese-manufactured strobes ended up having issues (this was well documented several years ago). So much so that both of the u/w photo shops in Singapore stopped carrying S&S brand strobes for several years. For a period of time you would not have been able to find a new S&S strobe for sale in Singapore - most people were buying Inon's. 

 

6 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

Actually this is a bit subjective
I have had two sea and sea strobes none of them had any issues
I have had 4 inon strobes and one was defective
I damaged the sea and sea (hit a door on land and cracked a part) was not impressed with after sales and decided to switch but the actual product was solid
The YS-D2 has a design issue the bulb is too strong for the plastic casing and this results in the reflector getting hot
In the updated version sea and sea has put in place this safety mechanism to protect the bulb. In some cases the users try to circumvent this issue and end up damaging the strobe
Otherwise the strobe is well built has good coverage and power and the ergonomics work great
I almost never shoot at full power is the benefit of an MFT camera usually f/16 on the strobe is plenty but in some cases I shoot full power never on rapid burst and so far no problem


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would disagree, one person's experience is just a few data points and to be truthful yours would match a large percentage of users as most buy them and use them without  issues and we never hear from them.  However the collective experience on Wetpixel shows problems arising with S&S more frequently than with INON.  Of course not everyone who has a defective strobe comes to WP for help, but statistically speaking the chance of a problem seems higher with Sea and Sea,   Obviously we don't know how many INON are sold vs Sea and Sea which wo.ld be another factor in estimating the failure rate, but you would guess that sales volumes are not an order of magnitude different.  Clearly from posts on WP we see more S&S failures here than we do with INON.

4 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

I would disagree, one person's experience is just a few data points and to be truthful yours would match a large percentage of users as most buy them and use them without  issues and we never hear from them.  However the collective experience on Wetpixel shows problems arising with S&S more frequently than with INON.  Of course not everyone who has a defective strobe comes to WP for help, but statistically speaking the chance of a problem seems higher with Sea and Sea,   Obviously we don't know how many INON are sold vs Sea and Sea which wo.ld be another factor in estimating the failure rate, but you would guess that sales volumes are not an order of magnitude different.  Clearly from posts on WP we see more S&S failures here than we do with INON.

I think you missed the point entirely I was referring to this comment

Also, it seems the time has come for UW photographers to switch to other strobe makes and inform Sea&Sea of this. Personally, since I switched I have had no more strobe problems.  

 I did exactly that and actually had my first defective strobe after switching to Inon so that is not the cure

Sea and Sea YS-D2 made in China (brown casing) have been problematic. Yellow casing YS-D2J not really except the protection issue

The strobe is very  powerfull but too small, the flat front does not let the heat dissipate and the plastic material does not help

Inon Z240 were weaker so were YS-D1 so there was no issue

Inon Z330 are also plastic but the dome front helps  the heat dispersion process, Sea and Sea has insisted with the flat front and even the YS-D3 has this protection mechanism. If the design and materials do not change I do not think the heat dispersion will improve and problems will continue.

If I had a full frame camera shooting at small aperture I would be extremely doubtful about using Sea and Sea strobes myself however with my camera shooting wide angle max at f/11 I really have no problems

Yet many shops like backscatter and bluewater photo recommend the YS-D3

30 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Yet many shops like backscatter and bluewater photo recommend the YS-D3

Better profit margin, maybe?

13 minutes ago, TimG said:

Better profit margin, maybe?

I would hope not. It is funny how sometimes shops are brought into the mix and that adds credibility and other times it does not

The owner of backscatter still recommends DSLR does it mean he has lots of old stock to sell?

3 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

The owner of backscatter still recommends DSLR does it mean he has lots of old stock to sell?

Maybe. Or maybe he does believe DSLR is still the way to go. As a D500 user I wouldn’t necessarily argue against that!

Just now, TimG said:

Maybe. Or maybe he does believe DSLR is still the way to go. As a D500 user I wouldn’t necessarily argue against that!

So then the recommendation of YS-D3 must be as good as that one

It is unlikely that Japanese cheaper products mean more margin. I think when it comes to retra it must be irritating that they sell directly to consumers. Japanese companies from this point of view are more structured and easy to deal with for them

1 hour ago, Kraken de Mabini said:

To be useful, our experiences with strobes, and other equipment such as regulators and dive computers, would need to be gathered into an ongoing data base which can be analyzed statistically

Sounds just the job for you, Elias???

9 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

So then the recommendation of YS-D3 must be as good as that one

It is unlikely that Japanese cheaper products mean more margin. I think when it comes to retra it must be irritating that they sell directly to consumers. Japanese companies from this point of view are more structured and easy to deal with for them

I think the point is they seem to be pushing S&S rather than INON.  Unfortunately the only data we have to go on is the number of people talking about S&S failures.  It's not just the Chinese YS-D2, we have seen issues with a few YS-D3, YS-03, YS-D2J, I don't recall any YS-01 off the top of my head.  INON failures are not often reported, though there were some complaints from cave divers who tend to us ethem at full power more than other people. 

All strobes will have some failure rate.  It's probably valid to say that INON is the more reliable strobe - this would certainly be the case if their sales volumes were similar.  S&S would have to have a significantly higher sales volume than INON for the failures we are seeing to be to be due to sample size.