Why its best to have two style viewfinders

2 hours ago, oneyellowtang said:

What you wrote: "For me action tracking means fast moving subjects and to do better than the D850 it needs to support 10fps"

The A7RV was a different comment, mine was regarding the fact that you assumed he was talking about shooting video, you didn't actually ask for the clarification.

There are a number of folks who shoot with c-af on a DSLR, including @adamhanlon who wrote (3/22):

"I think that shooting the D850 (or D500/D5) in single servo mode is like driving a Ferrari at 30mph...

For the majority of my shooting, I use Continuous AF with 3D focus tracking" w/regards to shooting macro. 

I've also found it particularly useful for some blackwater sitatuations...

 

As I wrote earlier keeping focus on a static subject while the diver moves to control buoyancy is not the same as fast action so we are aligned

In fact quite a few cameras including A7R4/5 A7IV etc can do that quite well

When we look at more fast moving subjects @TimG example of dolphins where you shoot at higher frame rate potentially with no strobes then we are in another domain but to be honest I do not use tracking for those just CAF

I make sure the target is on the AF points myself. Dolphins are not birds you can track by your eye

This thread is about viewfinders folks....

The OP is asking about using two different types of viewfinder. Comments like

On 2/21/2023 at 6:06 PM, Interceptor121 said:

When you move to mirrorless

are irrelevant and simply provoke an argumentative response. The OP has not stated an interest in doing so, nor have they asked for any input about 

I only use a 45° viewfinder. I am not nearly clever/co ordinated enough to get my brain to rewire if I split between types. I use the 45° at night and with faster moving subjects comfortably. 

This thread is about viewfinders folks....

The OP is asking about using two different types of viewfinder. Comments like
are irrelevant and simply provoke an argumentative response. The OP has not stated an interest in doing so, nor have they asked for any input about 

I only use a 45° viewfinder. I am not nearly clever/co ordinated enough to get my brain to rewire if I split between types. I use the 45° at night and with faster moving subjects comfortably. 

@Interceptor121....neither you nor I have any right whatsoever to suggest that any post is "off". Why would you feel that you are (as a person) are capable of assessing what someone else wants to ask? We are a community of equals, supporting each other and providing opinions. You seem to feel that you have the ability to assess the validity of posts. I would strongly suggest that you reconsider this.

There is no requirements on these forums to specify what camera system you are using. Again, you have no right to state that:

6 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

You can’t make a generic statement ok viewfinders in 2023 without saying what system you talk about

To stress to anyone else following this discussion,  from the perspective of the Wetpixel Admins, this is NOT our opinion and does not reflect our thinking in any way. We welcome people to make generic enquiries if they wish. 

Anyone can ask whatever they want on this forum (as long as it is related to underwater image making). To stress, your comment about "when" was made after he had stated that he is using an SLR, so is irrelevant, and simply comes across as argumentative and critical. If you have nothing to add to his (or other's) enquiry, please avoid commenting. 

1 minute ago, adamhanlon said:

@Interceptor121....neither you nor I have any right whatsoever to suggest that any post is "off". Why would you feel that you are (as a person) are capable of assessing what someone else wants to ask? We are a community of equals, supporting each other and providing opinions. You seem to feel that you have the ability to assess the validity of posts. I would strongly suggest that you reconsider this.

There is no requirements on these forums to specify what camera system you are using. Again, you have no right to state that:

To stress to anyone else following this discussion,  from the perspective of the Wetpixel Admins, this is NOT our opinion and does not reflect our thinking in any way. We welcome people to make generic enquiries if they wish. 

Anyone can ask whatever they want on this forum (as long as it is related to underwater image making). To stress, your comment about "when" was made after he had stated that he is using an SLR, so is irrelevant, and simply comes across as argumentative and critical. If you have nothing to add to his (or other's) enquiry, please avoid commenting. 

It is not argumentative and mine is an opionion what is the problem?

The topic says why you need two viewfinders. It does not actually articulate the exact requirements for it that apply generally

I made the conclusion that the user is a DSLR user because I know but then someone else comes and wonders why would I do need that?

Even DSLR users say maybe that is not needed which is an opinion

However the blanket statement Why its best to have two style viewfinders and the explanation that follow is not really universal. And this is not an opinion is a fact as it does not apply as DSLR has limitations mirrorless does not have

I do not want to persuade the op to change system either but a statement like that as a blanket is not very effective and lends itself to questioning

If it was as a DSLR User I believe....

No problem nobody else with a mirrorless camera would have bothered but he did not

And besides on DSLR I would actually agree with the op as split shots are a pain with an angled viewfinder

You may not express opinions about whether a post is valid ("off") or not.  Anyone is entitled to discuss any topic to do with underwater image making within our community. If you do not like, cannot contribute or do not understand a topic, simply do not engage with it. If you feel the topic requires clarification before you can respond, ask the OP for clarification. What you (or I or anyone else) may not do is state that someone's post is in some way invalid ("off"). You may not be critical of people's questions or the way they frame them. Everyone is entitled to ask...

For example, if you think that people must specify what system they are using before posting, please create a topic and we can discuss your opinion. 

Specifically, what you did was to incorrectly state your opinion as a requirement:

1 hour ago, Interceptor121 said:

You can’t make a generic statement ok viewfinders in 2023 without saying what system you talk about

You expressed your opinion as a statement of fact. However, it is not a fact and simply reflects (your) opinion. If you want to engage constructively with members of our community, I think that you should realise that your opinions are not facts and that disagreement and discussions reflect your and others' opinions.

To stress, members are welcome to make generic statements about viewfinders or anything else in any year!



 

I agree with the others that fast moving subjects underwater are comparatively rare, but "subject acquisition" does often need to be rapid, even with slow moving subjects. 

I always find that adjusting between different viewfinder options actually slows this down as my muscle memory relearns the correct camera angle!

You may not express opinions about whether a post is valid ("off") or not.  Anyone is entitled to discuss any topic to do with underwater image making within our community. If you do not like, cannot contribute or do not understand a topic, simply do not engage with it. If you feel the topic requires clarification before you can respond, ask the OP for clarification. What you (or I or anyone else) may not do is state that someone's post is in some way invalid ("off"). You may not be critical of people's questions or the way they frame them. Everyone is entitled to ask...

 

For example, if you think that people must specify what system they are using before posting, please create a topic and we can discuss your opinion. 

Specifically, what you did was to incorrectly state your opinion as a requirement:

You expressed your opinion as a statement of fact. However, it is not a fact and simply reflects (your) opinion. If you want to engage constructively with members of our community, I think that you should realise that your opinions are not facts and that disagreement and discussions reflect your and others' opinions.

To stress, members are welcome to make generic statements about viewfinders or anything else in any year!

 

 

 

 

We disagree on what is a fact

Sorry about the off

But the op post in my opinion is imprecise as written because it is absolute it talks about need not preference (best others are suboptimal is a superlative)

And if you want support such statement you have to be precise

If the title was why I prefer two viewfinder fine whats the problem

But need raises questions and triggers disagreement

An accurate description would have helped at least to clarify that the op is a DSLR user

Then someone is still disagreeing but that’s because it is presented as superlative not preference

Sorry for the blurb off this thread now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

People will be imprecise on an internet forum. It’s not a scientific paper. 

@Interceptor121

Umm...clownfish as an example?

"As I wrote earlier keeping focus on a static subject while the diver moves to control buoyancy is not the same as fast action so we are aligned"

[mention=34353]Interceptor121[/mention]

 

Umm...clownfish as an example?

 

"As I wrote earlier keeping focus on a static subject while the diver moves to control buoyancy is not the same as fast action so we are aligned"

I don’t shoot clownfish with a macro lens or a flat port so maybe yes

are you going to shoot one or many shots?

I see no major problems really with that scenarios and I have no blurred clown fish shots nor I would use tracking

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

@Interceptor121

Well, it's a good thing that you are "you" then, because:

@Alex_Mustard wrote in his article "How to Photograph a Clownfish" (Scuba Diving, 4/2020):

"An attractive anemone is the cornerstone for any memorable anemonefish photo, in both wide angle and macro."

Many u/w photographers shoot clownfish (anemone fish) with a flat port (actually, it's likely that "most" clownfish shots are macro images, esp. as people first start shooting these subjects).

Separating out opinions vs. "facts" helps here.

[mention=34353]Interceptor121[/mention]

Well, it's a good thing that you are "you" then, because:

[mention=713]Alex_Mustard[/mention] wrote in his article "How to Photograph a Clownfish" (Scuba Diving, 4/2020):

"An attractive anemone is the cornerstone for any memorable anemonefish photo, in both wide angle and macro."

Many u/w photographers shoot clownfish (anemone fish) with a flat port (actually, it's likely that "most" clownfish shots are macro images, esp. as people first start shooting these subjects).
Separating out opinions vs. "facts" helps here.
 

On 2/21/2023 at 5:42 AM, rwb500 said:

why is the straight viewfinder better at night??  Couldn't you just use the 45 all the time?  I think once you get used to it, its fine for open water and other non-macro subjects.

I just switched a 45 degree viewfinder and used it for the first time on a night dive last weekend. For me, it was difficult finding the viewfinder. The 45 degree viewfinder has a smaller viewing angle. If I wasn't staring at it just right, I couldn't see light coming from it. I missed out on several pictures because I just couldn't find the viewfinder, then couldn't find the subject (because it moved). With more practice, I'm sure I'll develop muscle memory and find it faster. I would have been happy to have a very low light emitting glow ring which could be put around the viewfinder.

When I could find it, it was awesome. I was able to get lower with the camera, and the larger image made it easier to locate and find the critters. I just posted a few pics from the other night in the other sub.

Shooting macro with a 45 takes some dive time. I resisted it for some time. Once you commit to it and put in the dives it really opens up shooting macro subjects . Since I shot the 180 (straight thru) viewfinders for over 35 years they always seemed so easy and the 45 was a hard learning curve. Now I need both finders as tey both have applications

If I was shooting blue water subjects or snorkeling the 180 would be on my housing all the time.

Shooting macro with a 45 takes some dive time. I resisted it for some time. Once you commit to it and put in the dives it really opens up shooting macro subjects . Since I shot the 180 (straight thru) viewfinders for over 35 years they always seemed so easy and the 45 was a hard learning curve. Now I need both finders as tey both have applications
If I was shooting blue water subjects or snorkeling the 180 would be on my housing all the time.

16 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

I would agree on a dslr
On a mirrorless provided the lcd resolution is sufficient there is no real improvement with a straight viewfinder


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depends on your eyesight,  the availability of diopter adjustment on the viewfinders is a big plus for them for me, plus shooting through a viewfinder is a different experience to holding the rig at arms length.  Yes I know there are mask based solutions and contacts but if I don't have to use them I'm happier.    Seems like an individual decision to me.

Depends on your eyesight,  the availability of diopter adjustment on the viewfinders is a big plus for them for me, plus shooting through a viewfinder is a different experience to holding the rig at arms length.  Yes I know there are mask based solutions and contacts but if I don't have to use them I'm happier.    Seems like an individual decision to me.

5 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Viewfinder £1400
You can buy many contact lenses for the same use case


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like I said it's individual, you might be happy to use contacts.  I'd rather not.  For me I just use the 45deg viewfinder I have for all shooting, it works pretty well for me.

7 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

Like I said it's individual, you might be happy to use contacts.  I'd rather not.  For me I just use the 45deg viewfinder I have for all shooting, it works pretty well for me.

45 degrees yes

Straight vs contact lenses -> no